Looking for recommendations: Lago d'Orta and Ventimiglia

Dear Berserkers,

I will be spending several days in the Northern Italy next month, more specifically Lago d’Orta and Ventimiglia. As all I know about these places are the former being the “undiscovered jewel of Italian lakes” and the latter supposedly having a great Saturday market I am looking for ideas what to do once there. Absolutely any ideas are welcome, but after going to Barolo/Barbaresco twice in the very recent history years we are not planning to do that now. Ligurian wineries are of interest and wine shops as well, as are restaurants and wine bars of course. Has anyone here been to either of these places?

Day trip to stresa and visit Isola Bella and Isola Superior.

For fun we took the domodossala train to Locarno. It’s a narrow gauge train. Fun day. Took the boat back from Locarno to Stresa

The Train Wiki

Mottarone is fun you can take the tram up from stresa. Lago Orta is the other side, might be able to get up from there directly. Good Rollercoaster there.

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From Ventimiglia, take the 25 minute drive north to Apricale for your Italian medieval hill-town fix. A nice afternoon to walk around, and if you can, do lunch at La Capanna da Baci for top notch Ligurian dishes and a great view of the countryside. Halfway is the small wine-town of Dolceaqua. We didn’t try (wished I did), but this a good opportunity for your local wine-tasting-visits.

Besides the great, great market at Ventimiglia, for foodie stuff and everything else, i.e. a sink that you may want to replace, I don’t believe there’s anything else worth staying around for in the city, unless you cross the border to go to Nice. The cheeses, cured meats, pastas, and pesto sauces … go nuts on these in the indoor market and try as many as you can manage. Good luck with parking … everybody from the French side does their shopping here.

Brig, Ramon,

Great suggestions, thanks! The rollercoaster looks absolutely insane, I’m not sure about my chances of talking the missus into it though. Stresa and the islands seem very nice, Apricale and Dolceacqua as well. We are surely going to check all these places out.

There is a great inn and seafood place recommended by Faith Eillinger called Baia Benaimin in Ventaiglia.It is secluded spot with four rooms on a cove
overlooking the ocean with great seafood.I was there many years ago and if it.is still the same you will love it.

Hi Illka
I’ve not been down to Ventimiglia yet, but have been tempted to day trip from Cuneo via the ‘wonder train’, which weaves through the mountains, into and back out of France, including doing a full ‘corkscrew’ circle togain/lose height. The line was briefly out of service last time we were in Cuneo.

Cuneo itself is a good destination for a day trip if you fancy that same journey in reverse, it’s residents unfairly joked about as the ‘coneheads’ (due to the name / shape of the city). An easy to navigate old town, wonderful market (any market that sells small tractors is a proper market, and in season some great mushrooms / other produce. A very good restaurant / Enoteca (Osteria delle chiocciole IIRC) plus other good restaurants, and a Baladin birreria which is pleasing on a warm day. Train station relatively close the the centre (many aren’t), easily walkable. We’d intended to take a picnic for the train in one or other direction.

Are you planning to go to the Hanbury gardens? A short drive or bus journey (bus #1 IIRC) and looked nicely sprawling from my Italian language tape.

No experienced of Lago Orta (yet) but will be interested to hear what you make of it. However if you are on the south side it puts you very close to Ghemme, Gattinara, Fara, etc. Gattinara definitely a good option of a day trip, with enough in the centre to appeal outside of the wine, but the wine should not be missed. Ghemme has little to entertain a tourist, and does sit somewhat in the shadow of Gattinara, but the wines are good/interesting/good value. A lovely happy lady in the gelateria makes a visit there worthwhile - the joy of having a job you love apparent. Also wonderful in Ghemme is the agriturismo Il Cavenago, which we’ve stayed in before and the food is a definite highlight. If you can make it there for an evening they are open for food (usually friday / saturday) or perhaps better - for sunday lunch, you’ll get a wonderful multi-course (pace yourself!) agriturismo set menu / banquet, always with a brilliant risotto, local Ghemme & Gattinara wines with very modest markups, in a characterful setting inside and out (we love being there at dusk, as the bats take to the skies). As usual with Agriturismi, the price is great value.

Novara also worth a consideration for a day trip, perhaps on a cooler / poor weather day. An under-appreciated city of genuine charm.

regards
Ian

Thanks Richard, however it seems to be for private events nowadays only.

Hi Ian,

The train line between Cuneo and Ventimiglia seems like a really cool thing to do. Looking at Google pictures the town of Cuneo itself reminds me of some of those on the other side of the border. This is actually the first time I hear about the Hanbury gardens! At Lago d’Orta we will actually be located in Madonna del Sasso (amazing view of the lake!) which is on the western side of the lake so the 40min+ drive to Gattinara/Ghemme would be quite ideal. Great to know where to go get my pistachio gelato fix :slight_smile:

Thank you very much for the tips, I will definitely report after my vacation!

Very good recommendations. Dolceacqua is a nice town to stroll around, but is quite small and will not take long. Most people are there just to see the Monet bridge and the remains of the castle. There are several places to try the local Rossese, along with some whites and roses. The Rosseses I had were decent but nothing to get too excited about.

Be prepared for really bad traffic on market day (Friday) in Ventimiglia.

As noted, there isn’t a lot to do in Ventimiglia itself. If you want an amazing dining experience, drive or take the train just across the border into Menton and go to Mirazur. Not cheap but my two meals there have been among the best I’ve ever had.

Thanks Jeff. Mirazur looks amazing indeed but it is probably a bit too expensive as we will be eating out every day for three straight weeks and the wine lists of Burgundy is where I feel we should be allocating our limited funds to.

Thanks once again everyone for the suggestions. We had an all around awesome trip that had been already nice but really took off with the drive through Switzerland to Lago d’Orta. We stopped several times to marvel at the most amazing views.

Our hotel was indeed in Madonna del Sasso which is on the left side of the lake up the hill. It was an affordable place called Hotel Panoramico which offered very nice value I think, especially as we had a balcony with a view of the lake. There is also a restaurant where we actually dined on both nights because of the damned drive you are forced to do to get up there. The road is crazy narrow and at times steep and the locals can sometimes be quite reckless drivers. The food was not anything fancy but well made and authentic and we enjoyed nice bottles of 2010 Lorenzo Zanetta Boca DOC and a fresh Viglione Roero Arneis. The Boca while otherwise competently made had seen a bit too much oak for my tastes but the Arneis I enjoyed thoroughly - relatively complex, good volume and very refreshing acidity. The 16 € (hehe) price point did not hurt either.

Next day we first headed to Stresa per Brig’s recommendation and did the boat trip. Isola Bella was a bit too jammed but Isola Superiore was quite enjoyable. Overall good cheap, harmless fun. After a light lunch we visited the Villa Pallavicino Zoo which we liked quite a lot as you get very close to the animals and as it is a hillside joint you get some welcome excercise as well. Next we drove to Orta San Giulio which really surprised us with its charm (and there was some incredibly delicious pistacchio gelato!). I think if we come to Lago d’Orta again I will try to book a hotel/b&b in or near this town. When we got back to the parking garage to leave we faced something that would (hopefully) never happen north of Italy. Apparently it is not out of question there to drive your car to the port and then leave it to go pay for the parking. Probably an ok thing to do in the middle of the night but as this was a popular time to leave there was a queue of around 15 people in front of the only pay station, with each and every person paying with cash. I am sure it is not difficult to imagine the yelling, cursing and horn honking that occurred as several people started getting understandably frustrated for not getting out.

Right before our trip we had heard about Ventimiglia being sort of one of the hot spots of the refugee crisis. This had got us slightly worried (not perhaps in terms of safety but just not knowing what to expect) but indeed our B&B was outside of Ventimiglia, once again a bit up the hill, and basically it was only traffic that moved anywhere near.

While driving to Ventimiglia we stopped in Alassio and Sanremo. Perhaps some people might prefer these places to Ventimiglia due to the latter’s “roughness” but being that we had such a nice B&B with an incredible view of the ocean from the balcony we could not have been much happier with our choice. In where we live it is often possible to go to a fully booked restaurant early without a reservation and get a table for two if you promise to be done in let’s say 1,5 hours. In Ventimiglia I learned the hard way that this is most definitely not the case. We went to an empty, well-regarded restaurant right when they opened and were hoping to get lucky. We did not, so we then sat down at the restaurant next door only to see the tables in the first one never being used during the two hours we spent there. I shall not name names but the one we ended up in was truly horrible. Note to self, ALWAYS make a reservation in Italy.

Next day we followed the forum recommendations and visited the towns of Rocchetta Nervina, Apricale and Dolceacqua. Rocchetta was the smallest and the most quiet and quite cool actually to walk around in ancient surroundings. Apricale was a truly wonderful hill town and once again we were positively surprised about the exercise it offered. I was really looking forward to have lunch there but we had arrived quite early and the recommended restaurants only started to offer lunch around 12:30 so we decided to do it in Dolceacqua. There we found a splendid restaurant called A Viassa.

What I have learned about countries like Italy, Germany and France (well, probably applies anywhere) is that often the glassware you see on the tables can be a solid indicator of overall quality and this was indeed the case of A Viassa as well. They had very tempting pasta options for lunch and because of the warm weather we skipped the local red and ordered Pigato, the local white. It was from a producer called Terre Bianche and turned out to be a superb match for the lighter pasta dishes and a properly nice wine in its own right. Quite high viscosity with some peppery power but fortunately not over-powering with the food. Despite being quite rich I would call it even refreshing to some extent, not unlike some modern whites from Catalunya. Dolceacqua itself did not offer too much to do and because of some local festivities we could not find a single place that offered wine tasting that day, except for a co-op that I just did not find promising enough to try.

Second evening we walked to Ventimiglia for a dinner at a beach restaurant called Marco Polo. It was very easy to see why perhaps Ventimiglia is not mentioned as one of the must-see coast towns as it is partly a somewhat rough place, something quite different than what you get when you cross the border. Nevertheless the beach area is very nice and as our table was outside we got to experience the most amazing sunset while eating and drinking. It is a seafood place first and foremost, naturally, with some really surprising things then on the winelist. Mostly everything seems to be well-priced but many would get excited by the weirdly cheap 80’s vintages of Castello di Ama single vineyards, 1982 La Tâche at 700 € or the various older vintages of Mouton priced in the 400-500 € range. All the name-dropping aside, we were looking to drink local so Pigato and Rossese it was. The first was from Cascina Feipu dei Massaretti, a markedly lighter expression than the Terre Bianche at lunch. Different but not necessarily any better or worse and very nice with the splendid seafood risotto. The Caldi Rossese di Dolceacqua Superiore is my only experience with the variety thus far and while it was easy to see why it has not become a massive worldwide success I found its rustic purity, savory nature and earthiness quite appealing. The service was mostly really exemplary at this place and while some can find it tacky to end a dinner by asking customers to recommend them on Tripadvisor it can easily be forgiven in this case.

Thanks for reporting back with good read and details.

No problem! I am happy if even one person manages to get through my long write-ups. However as one gets good recommendations here I think it is only appropriate to comment how the trip went in the end.

Hi Ilkka
Very much appreciated, though I would hate someone to feel obliged to do a write-up.

This may sound odd, but I’m not put off Ventimiglia by it being a little rough (I find this more challenging in big cities though). I think this is a trade-off for me of disliking the falseness of some prettier places on the mass tourism trail. I think there is a strong chance we could day trip there from Cuneo next year, and may well give Marco Polo a try if we do.

Regards
Ian

“Rough” may be too strong a word, in my opinion. Having visited a couple times via daytrips from our base across the border in the much more manicured Nice/Monaco areas, Ventimiglia and the rest of the Italian Riviera that we drove by or stopped at were not as appealing. We even actually thought then that San Remo, and note that we only stopped for a quick coffee downtown, was even less appealing.

Hi Ian,

Thanks! I was merely thinking of writing a line or two about how the trip went and of course if some great new discoveries were made. I just have personally this problem of not being able to write “a line or two” and every time I end up writing a short story’s worth of text.

Actually I did not have a problem with the relative roughness either. I was definitely not a huge fan of some of the French towns we would visit later like Antibes and Saint-Tropez. In comparison Ventimiglia really feels more authentic and alive. If you end up going to Marco Polo I hope you enjoy it, we certainly did.

Well I would not call it rough per se but it is all relative. When you cross the border you feel like you could eat from the pavement, the difference is so huge.

I must admit the change in road surface quality between the French and Italian sides of Mont Blanc tunnel was striking. French autoroutes seemed impeccably maintained, including a brave group of litter pickers we saw clearing litter from the verge as cars sped past. The Italian roads were potholed, patched up and with stark concrete partitions.

It’s how it is, and can’t remove my enjoyment of Italy.

The “roughness” relative to the French side, doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of Italy, too.

Btw, the more gentle beauty of French countryside is much more amplified and contrasted when crossing from Spain. Again, not complaining about the ruggedness of Spanish border regions, which I love in their own ways, but as soon as you drive into France from the Basque areas or from Catalonia, the difference in the roadways and the overall sights around you are much more obvious in terms of appearing to be more nicely (man-made or natural) manicured.