Thinking about Gruner Veltliner

In Anderson Valley we’ve seen things line Riesling and Gewurtz get pulled out and replanted with Pinot Noir. Now I get calls for Pinot Gris, Gewurtz and Riesling all of the time. Well, last fall we pulled out about 10 acres of 35 year old Riesling (it was on AXR1 and was down to 1.5 tons/acre) on some really great soils. I’m already replanting 13 acres of 3 different Pinot clones next month in another area. I really like drinking Albarino and am thinking about planting some. Tonight I’m having some friends over and bought a couple Gruners (Mantlerhof and Tegernseerhof Frauenweingarten) at Bottle Barn.

Seems like our cool climate site needs a little diversification. Do you think we could gross $8-10K per acre growing either of these?

sure; just grow some weed in between the rows! Happy Birthday!

I like Gruner, but I don’t see anyone being passionate about it.

Is there any Poulsard budwood in this country? If there is, I’d plant Poulsard and Trousseau (Wells has Trousseau budwood). They ripen in the Jura, which is colder than Anderson Valley (if I’m remembering correctly). And winemakers would have the option of bottling them separately, or as a Poulsard-Trousseau-PinotNoir blend, ala the Jura. I love them both ways (blend or not).

Savagnin (a jura white grape) would be great as well. Not sure there’s any Savagnin bud wood in this country?

I’d plant Chenin Blanc… but then that’s just me trying to find some wicked sources for Chenin Blanc… and I think Anderson Valley has great potential for Chenin Blanc.

But again, that’s just me and my love for Chenin Blanc and the Anderson Valley. I’m not trying to tell you that you should try planting Chenin Blanc, but by all means - it has great promise up there in the boonies. Just ask the folks over at Navarro. Their Chenin Blanc is pretty wicked.

I believe Navarro Chenin comes from Ukiah Valley, which is, of course much warmer. The question, it seems to me, that Casey is posing is what will command the bucks to make it worthwhile?

If you plant Albariño, I’d like to put in an order now.

That’s the way I read Casey’s question too. I think the only way he’s likely to do that with any of the varieties mentioned is to take Steve’s earlier suggestion!

Speaking as a retailer, the market for both Albariño and Gruner is pretty small, and those people who do come into the shop looking for them expect them to be from Spain and Austria. We have carried a few Albariños from California (most recently Egan Cellars and Schultz Vineyards), but even with a very reasonable price ($19.99) they weren’t easy to sell. If you can get 4+ tons per acre then maybe the math works, but I wouldn’t bet the farm.

Richard, Thanks for your input. Its important to know what the ground soldiers think about this. I could easily plant some more Chard as there is interest in Anderson Valley Chard. At present I’ll be sitting at 83 acres of Pinot (after we plant 13 more next month) and 65 acres of Chard, out of our 160 planted acres. I just can’t see planting more Pinot right now.

Love the idea of whites but they are hard to break even with due to lower retail price points and intern lower price per ton. I would estimate 2k per ton on those varieties so if you can get 4-5 tons per acre then you should be ok. Thats a lot of boxes to pick and haul/back haul.

With Pinot Noir at 3.5-4k per ton you only need 2-3.5 tons per acre to gross the same dollar amount or more. That seems like a much easier break even. Hopefully you can find some folks who want to get a Single Vineyard Designate program going from one or both of you great properties.

Great dirt deserves PINOT NOIR! Its also better on the bank account any way you slice it.

Joe,

Not to be disagreeable, since I know you are on the ground there in AV. A couple of questions though:

Do you think the market for PN will eventually saturate and prices drop?
Is 4k/ton realistic at 3.5 ton/acre?
Are those average or top price figures?

Part of the reason I ask is that I have had some offers to purchase PN from AV from known vineyards that are well below those figures in price from vines that don’t yield nearly 3.5 tons/acre.

There is at least one person who is planting some GV up here in Humboldt. I think it will ultimately be good for our industry if more places have more different varietals, particularly ones other than the best known French ones.

Besides, variety is the spice of life!

FIFY.

There are lots of points of views on questions like this. Good questions, I should have elaborated a bit more.

With some bigger players moving in and buying vineyards up here and not renewing contracts and keeping the fruit for their own purposes it is getting harder to find good/great fruit for those that don’t own dirt. There is not much new non bearing in the area either. Certainly there is a fair amount of replanting but that does not add much to the total tons and there not producing for a few years then producing a bit more than the old/ARX1 vines. I do not see the market saturating and prices falling any time soon. Remember the entire AV is only 2200 planted acres to 10+ varietals.

Casey is looking for the magic 10k per acre as we all are. So 2 tons at 5k, or 2.5 tons at 4k, or 3 tons at 3.3k, or 4 tons at 2.5k, etc. Is 4k per ton at 3.5 tons realistic? I gave a range of prices and tons for a reason as its always some kind of sliding scale mother nature willing. The range I gave is 8-12k per acre with 10k smack in the middle. So 4k for 3.5 tons would be 14k per acre a lot more than most are getting but what would make every farmer jealous, however AV is not there yet.

Prices for PN here are from 3-5k per ton. On the lower end you tend to have young vines farmed less intensively as the price cant allow for much manual labor, 3+ tons per acre. On the high end you have smaller properties farmed very intensively and going exclusively to SVD programs commanding $50+ per bottle, usually sub 3 tons to the acre. I know Casey farms very well and has good dirt, I would like to see some SVD PN wines from his properties.

There are several properties here who don’t need to break even ever to put food on the table or a roof overhead. Casey and I need to be better than break even to survive to grow and make another vintage. Not sure if that is the case for those who you have contacted. There are plenty of vineyards and wineries here that are not breaking even and sell grapes and wines at a loss. If you find a deal for top quality SVD fruit for 3k per ton sign a 10+ year contract on that then tell me who it is so I can score some left overs. Every-time I have looked at vineyards that are “deals” the quality is just not there. It seems as though in the end you get what you pay for.

Casey how about SaviB? You don’t have any of that either right?

Did some cluster counts yesterday, looks like it could be another heavy vintage. Lots of thinning will have to be done post flowering on thu green drop.

Yep, I buy a fair amount of both. Have not yet found any CA Albariños that would compare to the better versions from Rias Baxias. As for Grüner there is apparently some hope. The version just released by Carlisle is outstanding and can definitely compete as a hypothetical cross between a GV from Kamptal and Wachau.

Peter,

Have the Albariños you have tasted come from warm or cool sites?

Andrew, fair and good question. I’d say probably not cool site. They were not from Mendo or Humbolt.

Vermentino!

might be just a tad cool for Vermentino

I’m thinking it might be a tad cool for SB.

Muscat Blanc?