I’m considering buying a used truck for the winery. I’ve done some preliminary research on pickup trucks. I’m curious if there are recommended trucks for this kind of stuff; industry standards (say for examples, Ford 250’s from the early '80s are the gold standard); etc…
Must have:
Carry load of 1+ tons (like 1.25 tons)
Must fit (width of) Macrobins
Haul a trailer for empty bins and return with 2+ tons
Able to drive up steep hills (w/ no load) visiting vineyards.
Nice to have:
Cab- to fit a 5 year old and new born (i.e. full grown adults don’t have to sit back there).
Can fit 4 stacked Macrobins (2 stacks of 2); ideally still being able to close the back gate.
We have an F-250 Super Duty and I put it through its paces this harvest and it never flinched. Make sure you have the tow package and bluetooth, you’ll be set.
Decent gas mileage might be a stretch - I’m getting in the ballpark of 14 MPG. Two macros require the tailgate to be down, but with highway straps, not a problem.
If you just looking at having 2 tons then you could get away with a 1/2 ton truck. I can even do that with my Toyota Tacoma without any problem. Owever, my brother has a king ranch ford f-250 that is unreal. Very nice truck but I am not sure you can get one in CA. If you go with a 3/4 ton truck get a desiel not a gas engine.
Sasha you are on track to needing a 3/4 ton truck for those duties. The problem is its hard to find used pickups in decent shape. Everyone is looking for one. Most have tons of miles as they were used by a contractor or some kind of tradesman and they’re worn out. If you find one with low miles the price is not far off of a new one.
I’ve kind of been looking for something similar (but don’t have those cute kids to deal with!) and am having a heck of a time. Now I’m leaning towards a new diesel, standard cab, long bed, plain jane truck. Something I could pull a gooseneck trailer with and maybe haul 5-6 tons of fruit with. $45K price tag!
We just went through an evaluation on this too. Here’s some thoughts.
Must have:
Carry load of 1+ tons (like 1.25 tons)
Most 1/2 ton trucks are rated at 1500 pounds or so, you need a 3/4 ton or full ton to get that much in the bed.
Must fit (width of) Macrobins
They’re all designed that way Standard bed will fit two bins with the tailgate down, extended bed you can close the gate. You can stack three on a side in a standard, 4 in an extended.
Haul a trailer for empty bins and return with 2+ tons
This is more a trailer dependancy. Most trucks are rated to 5000-10000 pounds for towing with a tow package. Uhual trailers though cap out at 3000 pounds as a rating (9x12 with drop gate) so 3 bins is the max on those.
Able to drive up steep hills (w/ no load) visiting vineyards.
Any truck should do this but an SUV with weight in the back is better and 4 wheel drive better still.
Nice to have:
Cab- to fit a 5 year old and new born (i.e. full grown adults don’t have to sit back there).
You’ll probably want the cab more than you realze.
Can fit 4 stacked Macrobins (2 stacks of 2); ideally still being able to close the back gate.
See above, you need an extended cab to close the gate. Tiedown are fine if you do it right. I’ve hauled lots of fruit with the gate down and no issues.
Place to tie down straps
Standard
Avg/decent gas mileage
Go V-6. Most V-6’s in trucks are rated at 250+ horsepower which is plenty for what you’ll haul. They can be hard to find.
For us the truck winner was the Toyota Tundra V-6 with a tow package, but we ended up not buying it.
I got pretty comfortable this year in using a trailer on my Toyota FJ Cruiser. It’s rated to tow 5000 pounds (2 1/2 tons), 265 Hp, got 19-20 mpg while towing (55-60 mph) and moved 12+ tons of fruit this year. It has seating in the back and a storage area that holds an empty barrel or 16 cases of wine. It can climb any muddy road in any vineyard, and without the trailer attached is a good everyday car.
Basically we ditched the idea of buying a truck and went with the FJ-trailer combo. I choose to rent the trailer, largely because of storage issue when it’s not in use, but if you have a place to park it you can get one rated to 5000 pounds for @ $2500.
I’m looking for a similar type of used truck but have found you have to give up something(s) to get close to what you want. If you really want to safely carry over 1 ton of something in the bed you need to go the 1 ton route. If you want to carry children, in car seats, you really want the full crew cab. If you have 1 kid in jump seat and one in child’s car seat you can possibly work with a split seat or bucket seat style supercab(1.5 cab). Two T-bins in the back puts you into 8 ft bed territory. Light duty tiedowns are easy to add to the bed rail pockets, however, with any weight I would suggest some of the newer tie down systems on the inside bed. Most older 1/2 ton trucks can easily pull 2-3 tons but double check specs before buying as engine and gearing determine pulling capacity. Also factory installed trailer braking systems are better than aftermarket installs…they work but not as well. For Ford these were factory installed after 2004 I believe. For fuel economy diesel typically beats gasoline and has more pulling power but many of the recent diesels have problems…you need to pick wisely here if you go this route as repairs are costly. For example Ford F250/350 diesels post 2002 have had major problems up until the very recent spec 6.7L. Most people looking for a used F350 go back to the bullet proof 7.3L pre 2003(there were some made in 2003 as well) in which case a high mileage well taken care of truck is not a bad deal. Many of the newer 1/2 tons will do most of what you need except carrying weight, but if you have the towing capacity you can pull your heavy items. For example Ford makes an F150 Ecoboost that is a double turbocharged motor with plenty of torque for towing and can get good gas mileage…very hard to find these used and they’re not cheap. Personally, the newer trucks are too expensive and the pre recent crop of diesels have issues with the exception of the Chevy/GMC Duramax’s with Allison transmissions…still have to pick wisely here as some Duramax builds had problems but not like Ford’s. The older Cummins powered Dodges are a good motor but the auto-transmission was a weak link along with the build quality of body & cab materials. My situation is I have young grandkids to tote around occassionally, don’t expect to put more than 10K miles per year on the truck, need to transport tractors and equipment, need to get rid of large amounts of brush, and transport grapes or juice. Since this is a farm truck I’m not looking for luxury and large expense. The one I’m currently hunting for is an F350 V10 gas crew cab with 6.5ft bed that is between 2005-2010. Other than poor gas mileage the truck will do all the items I need to get done including pulling dump and equipment trailers. My max target cost is $18-20K. I had considered other gas motors in used trucks but they usually fall short in the pulling capability and gas mileage. Good luck in your search…Gary
I think you have to look at the distance you are hauling and decide if you really want to buy a huge 1 ton diesel for that tiny percentage of use. I have two arrangements for hauling. We have an old 80’s era F-250 long bed regular cab. It hauls 2 picking bins, 1 ton total with ease. The tail gate closes and the tie downs are only for the tarps. It doesn’t drive well and sucks gas, but who cares, its not a commuter car. For bigger loads up to 2+ tons, I use an SUV/trailer combo. The trailer loads easily in the vineyard and back at the winery. If using an SUV, make sure it is really up to the job as far as brakes and it is fairly heavy. If the load starts out-weighing the tow vehicle, things can start getting interesting. Engine power is not much of a consideration. Any 6 cylinder makes enough to do the job. A great example of a bad tow rig was my old Jeep Cherokee. It had plenty of power but not enough brakes or weight, it wallowed all over the place, downright scary. Of course brakes can be dealt with by using trailer brakes and a good controller. You can wire a good system into anything but OEM setups are convenient. The SUV/trailer combo might work well for you since you have family to haul. This year I towed 2 tons of grapes down a super steep and narrow driveway with no drama. Dropped it in low range and idled down the hill. The only real concern was the rating of those tie down straps. The rest of the time, towing becomes a exercise in defensive driving. Its amazing the stupid people who don’t know how to merge onto the freeway right lane and expect you with 5 tons of mass to get out of their Prius’s way. I got flipped off at least twice this year by idiots that didn’t know how to merge.
Something I thought of this weekend and didn’t comment on was to mention Casey’s point. I started out thinking I’d get a used truck also and after looking at the cost to quality/odometer ratio s-canned that idea pretty fast and looked at new.
I did the reluctant big truck owner route: Started with a f150, got an e350, then a f250 diesel. Now I am biting the bullet and buying the truck I should have bought (Ram3500 diesel) from the start and saved myself thousands of dollars. Never thought I would be at this point wanting a full size 1 ton, but after replacing the turbo 4x on my f250 and almost dieing when some idiot pulled out in front of me while pulling a trailer in the smaller rigs, the time has come.
Seriously think about where you will be in a few years. My opinion is SUV’s make horrible towing rigs, not heavy duty enough when someone pulls out in front of you and you are smoking the trailer brakes because they don’t want to be behind someone pulling a trailer. This is just part of the cost of safely doing business and staying alive.
Oh and stay away from the fords: 52K miles and four turbos is not a good record.
James brings up a terrific safety point not to be missed. The 1 ton trucks come with brakes that are built to stop heavy loads whether you are carrying them or pulling them. They are much larger than found on 1/2 ton trucks. The newer trucks also have an engine assist brake which is useful for those in hilly areas. I have carried and pulled the max that my F150 is rated for and have found that the brakes are insufficient in stopping distances and thus I must anticipate my slowdowns and stops.
If you’re hauling a couple of trips a season and being very careful, I’m almost okay with using the SUV to tow a trailer. However many of the things listed above are true. If you’ll be encountering steep grades, really good trailer brake controllers that come with 3/4 trucks are pretty important. You’re just asking for problems going too light duty.
FWIW I test drove the Chevy duramax diesel with the 6 speed allison auto. Drove it to the top of 253 (Boonville road) and back down. Seems to have nice gearing, plus special towing settings on the tranny. $50K pickup truck! The thing is I could hook it to a gooseneck and haul 5-6 tons of grapes or 48 empty bins. Submitted the request to hq today. We’ll see.
I’m not discounting the safety concerns raised above at all. But for a small producer, a $50k truck is probably a ways down the list of things to spend money on. As far as stopping distances go, I know its conventional logic that bigger brakes have shorter stopping distances. But it actually doesn’t work that way. An SUV typically has as good or better stopping distances than a truck. This is because pretty much all modern systems have enough power to lock the tires. At that point the friction of your tires and sophistication of your ABS takes over. Sure big brakes help with fade resistance over multiple stops or long down grades. But those things are within your control. A panic stop situation is too short to build up heat. So getting the trailer brakes set up properly are key no matter what you are driving. And careful driving of course. If hauling longer distances with hills is the norm, then go for the truck. But for us little guys, its hard to beat a trailer on something used as a daily driver the rest of the year.
Also something to keep in mind is the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle. If you get in an accident with a commercial load and you are over 10K gross vehicle weight (vehicle +trailer+load) you better have DOT registration and not be exceeding your GVWR or your insurance may not cover you. The fines can be hefty if you get pulled over and are in violation.
This is an important point. It is very easy to get your DOT number on the DOT website. You need it for any truck that grosses 10,000 pounds or more, even if you rent the truck. The DOT number is issued in your business name. There is no cost for the DOT number, but it must be displayed on a truck that you own. On a truck you rent it is on the rental or lease agreement. If you go out of state you also need an interstate haulers license. You need this even if make only one trip per year. At a minimum it costs $70 per year. The DOT number and interstate haulers license is federally mandated. The Feds have really started cracking down on the states to make sure everyone is registered. If the states do not do a good job the feds will withhold federal funds for road repair and construction.
Depending on the amount of grapes being transported and the time you want to spend on the road it might pay to look at renting a truck. A non-CDL straight truck can carry a load of up to 6 tons depending on the GVWR. Also when you are in a truck with height of 13 feet and a box length of 26 feet the knuckleheads tend to get out of your way, but not all the time.
Depending on the amount of grapes being transported and the time you want to spend on the road it might pay to look at renting a truck. A non-CDL straight truck can carry a load of up to 6 tons depending on the GVWR. Also when you are in a truck with height of 13 feet and a box length of 26 feet the knuckleheads tend to get out of your way, but not all the time.[/quote]
This brings us back to an important point within the wine industry: renting trucks for various tasks around harvest. I’ve been renting for many years and finding a reliable rental company is tough and changes over years. I’m a guy that they like: need to rent for a period of 5-6 weeks. The guys that need a truck for two days in the middle of harvest are usually screwed at their time of need. Thus Sasha’s wanting to control his own situation is very smart. I’ll bet during the non-harvest months, its pretty easy to get a truck to move some barrels or cased goods etc. Harvest can be a heart breaker.
We have a long bed 4WD Silverado 1500 (6000 lbs) and routinely carry 2 full pick bins and tow a 7000 GVWR trailer with 4 more. Truck has Air bags supplemental suspension, trailer brake controller etc. This works for our mode of harvest where we use a Kubota RTV to take pick bin down rows and then slide it to the pickup and ferry back to winery one at a time.
If MPG’s is part of the equation, then you at least have to consider a used Dodge diesel. Mine is an 03 3/4 ton longbed with full rear seat so it carries 6 people. It comfortably fits 4 people over 6 ft. tall. Freeway milage is around 22 unloaded and 18 loaded if I drive with a light foot.
I carry 1 ton in the bed and have towed 4 tons without issue. When I bought it, 5 years ago, I paid 14k (a good deal) since it had 155k on it. Now it is at 198k and is going strong.
If you are willing to go with an extended cab rather than a crew cab, you can go back farther in years. The 5.9 liter Cummins engine is legendary for lasting. Nice ones can be had for around 10k.
BTW, before you buy a Ford diesel, look into which engine/IP combo is on it. The 7.3 was a workhorse, but the 6.0 had serious issues.
I’m not sure this is gospel, but I’ve been told that when pulling a trailer with a flatbed, you have to stop all the weigh stations, whereas you don’t have to stop with the same load on a regular bed. I would at least investigate that before choosing the flatbed.
I pull a gooseneck that will carry 6 tons with an F-350 with the V-10. The truck is barely adequate with a full load on any sort of grade, and I certainly wouldn’t go any lighter. A V-10 sounds like more motor than it really is. I’ve resisted the diesel option because I’m pretty sick of that noise from the tractor already, but that’s probably the better choice.
Because all my heavier loads go on the trailer, I prefer a shorter 6.5 ft. bed and the smaller turning radius. I bought an “extend-a-truck” trailer hitch attachment that will lengthen the bed another couple feet past what you would have with a folded down tailgate. I got a ton of use out of it at harvest when carting around empty bins and barrels. 10 barrels or 6 bins was a doable load with the extension on, and I don’t have to make a 20 point turn to get into a parking space at Safeway on the way home.
Standard bed will fit two bins with the tailgate down, extended bed you can close the gate. You can stack three on a side in a standard, 4 in an extended.