pulse air for working the cap?

Anybody use this? It seems like a good idea and the video makes it look effective http://www.pneumatage.com/. It just seems really expensive for what it is – essentially a nice solenoid system that would make some sense for automating multiple tanks. The air compressor and the air filtration system are not included. If you are willing to work a valve on one tank at a time, is there any reason not to build a do-it-yourself version? I’m thinking an oil-less compressor, filter, valve and stainless wand could be assembled for less than $1000. Anyone tried this?

My first two thoughts would be 1) I think doing a manual punchdown is a great way to check in with each fermenter to see how things are going. Im not sure an automated process that encourages someone to be hands-off is a great idea. 2) If someone wants to do gentle extraction this might be too violent of a “punchdown”. But then again with a fermenter that large maybe the force needed to push down the cap is going to be significant anyway.

What would worry me is his comment that the machine blew off 2% of alcohol compared to a ‘normal’ fermentation (his example was 16% to 14% finished alc)…that’s a big alc change and it makes me wonder what other compounds are being blown off and how the long term character of the wine will be changed. I’d worry esp about using this on Pinot.

Used it in NZ with pretty good results. Those were 15 ton open tops, and there was almost no way to do it otherwise. Other than that, I can’t imagine there’s a great reason to use it on high end PN, etc.

This has been around for a number of years and has never caught on. That should tell you something.

It is important to have a physical relationship to your wine. You are a winemaker, not a button pusher.

'Seen them used where I make but never tried it.
Frankly, I don’t see much point - maybe the first couple days of fermentation when a punch down is near impossible?
Best, Jim

I see it as a big winery tool. 20 ton tanks cutting labor costs. I’ve got no problem with it for those guys.

My interest is really in actually turning the cap. All well and good get in touch with a macrobin fermentation that is readily trod or punched down, but with whole cluster ferments in 4 ton fermenters you’re really not getting much movement of the cap with those techniques beyond merely wetting the top layer. Last year, I felt I was treading that same layer, and those the same clusters, over and over. Artisanal as hell, but not really all that gentle or effective.
Point taken though, Eric, regarding what might be getting blown off. Still, in that regard, I can’t imagine the effect of blowing very large bubbles with low surface area to volume ratios through the cap is on a par with, say, pumping over through a device that fans out the must through the air. I find the claim about the alcohol blow-off pretty dubious now that I think about it. And I think Jim is right that the greatest utility would be in early stages when the cap is at it’s most unworkable, any oxygen introduced to the must is welcome and there isn’t that much in the way of alcohol or fermentation aromas to blow off.

To play devil’s advocate why not use smaller fermenters? Obviously it would be easier to push down the cap, but beyond that your steep vineyard with the different clones would seem to be well suited to fermenting the different blocks separately to see what they do.

Mostly, it’s because I like a pretty hot ferment for the majority of the pinot, so I want some mass. I’ve got a couple insulated Bonar bins that only hold about a ton and get plenty hot, but my other small fermenters are uninsulated 330 gal totes that cool down pretty fast w/o extra measures to warm them. I’m more apt to experiment with those, and you are right that there is a ton to be said for the flexibility to play with, and learn from, multiple variables that you get with smaller fermenters. But even at smaller volumes, I don’t find whole cluster lots punchable in the early stages, though treading does work. I still keep the clones separate in the larger fermenters, but I only keep 3 of the 7 for myself, and sell off the other 4. That culling was based on having kept all the clones separate for the first 6 or 7 vintages to decide which I favored. That might have been a premature judgement as it seems to me that the differences between the clones that I do keep get less pronounced as the vineyard ages.

My gut says to be cautious about this machine…but what does it know :slight_smile:.

What about destemming and adding the stems back in? That might make it a bit easier to work?

Don’t do that! Green, stemmy flavors will result. Whole cluster a portion, but don’t break the stems!

Why not try pumping out the juice, then pumping it back over to really break up the cap.

Or, be happy with your already gentle extraction?

I think it’s a great part of a cap management system. We use a portable system for when sulfides show themselves (and the ferment’s not too far along.) It’s very effective. We have not noticed any loss of aromatics from using it this way. We have not tried using it as the sole method of cap management… it is pretty good at moving things around, I imagine it would be very extractive.

My last employer introduced this system since the winemaker felt he was not getting enough extraction. A few of us terroir dinosaurs thought it was pretty extreme, but after 3 vintages of using it, I think he’s had pretty good results with no appreciable loss of quality. He might have gone a little hog-wild the first year, but I think he s dialed it back nicely and to good effect. ( solely with Pinot, BTW).

Used one at Maysara in 05&06 on 5 & 9 ton fermenters as a punchdown assist. Break the cap. Punch down and move along. It’s very messy on small lots.

Didn’t perceive it to blow off alc.