VA

Hi there,

I was wondering what typical VA levels most of you commercial wine makers record prior to bottling and at what levels are you most comfortable at? What is the highest VA level you have recorded where you have actually thought, “hey the numbers might look high on paper but the wine tastes and smells great!” Like with anything in Wine making, I understand there isn’t a finite number that tells you, hey its spoiled and the wine is Fauc ked… I realize those detectable levels are very dependent on the varietal along with many other things… There is a discussion going on another forum but am looking more for numbers and am asking it here since most of you commercial guys are required to measure it so that it is less than 1.2g/L (red) and 1.1g/L (white/dessert), in California I believe.

I do own a cash still and measured my VA levels last night of my 2013 pinot noir and measured 0.78g/L… I had it measured in my class about a month ago and had Vinquiry verify it at 0.71g/L… Anyways im going to have it measured by vinquiry again in a month or so and see what they get once again since I noticed a jump in 6 weeks. It could be that I’m not degassing well enough (CO2)… ANyways, the numbers do scare me that’s why I’m asking what the highest level of VA you have ever recorded but still bottled w/o trying to blend it down or RO filter it down… Just wondering if my wine is headed in the wrong direction… :frowning:

oh, and I realize my NOSE should be my only tool (not a cash still) and am constantly smelling my wine every time I top… So I’m def trying to train myself to pick up on it but unfortunately still new to this and still learning…

Brandon

VA can certainly be an issue if it becomes the dominant character. You will definitely know when it is too high.

Did you start particularly high, or did it spike over time? Did you see a sluggish ML, or did it go though quite well? Alcohol level?

I have bottled Pinot with a VA around 0.80, and have seen them as high as 0.87 or so when we do competitive tastings.

I’d be careful to let it go too high, especially if you plan on ageing it in barrel much longer.
What is your pH? What have you been holding the SO2 at? Acetobacter is an obligate aerobe, so keepint the SO2 a bit higher will definitely help you.
“Normal” Pinot pH will be between 3.55 and 3.7. An SO2 of around 30 will be a good start to help protect, a bit higher will slow the growth even more.

Unfortunately I never paid too close attention to VA until recently so have no records other than the first time I measured it in class back in early april last month… followed by vinquiry testing it…

I had no issues with Prim or MLF… MLF cruised along and finished after 6-8 weeks… I measured 15.5% using an ebulliometer back in March… so its high in alcohol… pH is 3.70 TA 0.55g/100ml…(verified by Vinquiry as well)…

I know at 0.5 Mol I should be at about 39ppm… I did let it go down for 2 months below that… lowest I recorded was 28/29ppm… figured since pH was decent and Alcohol was pretty high might not need as much SO2… I did just add 2 packets of effervescents to the barrel (18ppm) days ago when I topped… so I’m going to try to keep the SO2 levels up for now on… Screw the minimalistic approach! Ha… I don’t want this one and only barrel of wine I have to go sour on me…

Anyways Thanks for the sound advice… Ya I will def stick in that 30-50ppm FSO2 range… and thanks for mentioning that you’ve noticed higher levels of VA in bottled pinots… helps ease my mind a bit…

The last winery I worked for had a “rock star winemaker” make one of our bottlings. He loved to push the limits, and he loved high VA/Alc/oak/RS/everything else, and his VA’s would typically push the legal limits. Not a fan of that style personally, but you would be surprised how many highly rated wines have high VA.
That being said, 0.78 is not THAT high. As long as you are diligent (and really, O2 is way more important than anything else), just keep an eye on it, but don’t freak out. [cheers.gif]

Ok cool, Thanks Linda! Will def stay on top of it and keep a watchful eye…

I’ve worked alongside a winemaker (who got great spectator and advocate scores) who’s VAs often climbed into the .8/.9 range. I found the wines pretty undrinkable but that’s obviously a personal preference, and as I am not a critic my opinion does not matter. Anything over .65 or so I start seeing it, but I’m pretty sensitive. My bottled wines are generally below that range.

Thanks for the response Ian… yah I plan to work with 1 ton of pinot noir this year and hope to spend a lot of time in the vineyard this year… pick sooner… sort like a mad man… and press when the cap sinks… I don’t think extending the maceration by an extra 10 days and inoculating with MLF bacteria in the fermenter was a wise choice last fall… I might have not gassed the headspace and sealed the fermenter properly last year… shit, I might have not even been dry too (RS) when I added the MLF bugs… this could have led to higher than normal VA or even the fact that I didn’t sort thru the fruit whatsoever… I have lots to learn…