Vintage help

David_Hay · February 22, 2014, 2:06am

What is the best way to learn/research the best or better vintages for particular varietals?

I’m familiar with a few recent years and have seen some listings in Wine Spectator, but would like to find more on my own from other sources. Currently I’m most interested in Zinfandel, Petite Sirah, Syrah, PN & Cab.

TIA.

Paul_Savage · February 22, 2014, 4:46am

I would ask a specific question on one of the varietals on the Wine Talk forum and see what everyone knows. I think that’s probably the best approach… I.e. title it something like “Your opinion, good or bad, on recent Zinfandel vintages” …for instance.

And www.robertparker.com (I think that’s the correct link) offers a Vintage Chart that one can view for free, i.e. if you do not subscribe to the site. But there are just numerical scores and no comments or discussion…

NED_VALOIS · February 22, 2014, 4:52am

Parker’s Wine Buyer’s Guide (Paperback) helps.

Jay_Miller · March 3, 2014, 8:58pm

Also, vintages will depend more on region rather than variety. A good year for pinot noir in Oregon will not necessarily be a good year for pinot noir in the Santa Rita Hills.

NoahR · March 3, 2014, 11:42pm

You need to do some easy internet research. Pick a region (“Napa” or “Burgundy” for example) and lookup a vintage report. Ratings are too simplistic.

Again, it’s not varietal but region. Varietal comes second, in that certain varietals are picked early vs late and this may experience different weather during ripening and harvesting.

If you want to take a complex example: 2011 Northern California. It doesn’t get a good overall rating and was considered, in napa at least, a difficult year, mostly because it was relatively cool, which can be a boon if the growing season is long, but a lot of late season rains led to mildew problems in the valley, and cabernet farmers either picked less ripe, or suffered partial crop loss to mildew, or had some dilution because of the rain. That affected quite a number of producers. HOWEVER, Cabernet growers with hillside plots did fairly well because they didn’t suffer the same mildew problems, and growers of earlier ripening varietals, and especially Pinot, where cool climates breed good acidity and depth, picked before the rains and thus made some wonderful wines.

So vintage charts are incomplete, and it takes time to tease out what makes a good vintage for a given wine. Sorry this complicates things. Go buy 2005 Bordeaux - a great vintage.

David_Hay · March 4, 2014, 4:27am

NoahR:

You need to do some easy internet research. Pick a region (“Napa” or “Burgundy” for example) and lookup a vintage report. Ratings are too simplistic.

Again, it’s not varietal but region. Varietal comes second, in that certain varietals are picked early vs late and this may experience different weather during ripening and harvesting.

If you want to take a complex example: 2011 Northern California. It doesn’t get a good overall rating and was considered, in napa at least, a difficult year, mostly because it was relatively cool, which can be a boon if the growing season is long, but a lot of late season rains led to mildew problems in the valley, and cabernet farmers either picked less ripe, or suffered partial crop loss to mildew, or had some dilution because of the rain. That affected quite a number of producers. HOWEVER, Cabernet growers with hillside plots did fairly well because they didn’t suffer the same mildew problems, and growers of earlier ripening varietals, and especially Pinot, where cool climates breed good acidity and depth, picked before the rains and thus made some wonderful wines.

So vintage charts are incomplete, and it takes time to tease out what makes a good vintage for a given wine. Sorry this complicates things. Go buy 2005 Bordeaux - a great vintage.

Very good explanation and yes, this just complicated things even more!

I do see what you are saying and will work my way through that. Now that you specifically mention 2005 vintages, I am in the market to put together a number of different 2005’s for next year as it is my 10 year wedding anniversary. Could you refer me to some dynamite value '05 bourdeax and/or burgundy? I know nothing about french wine and any direction would be helpful.

Andrew_Kaufman · March 4, 2014, 11:32am

David J. Haycock:

NoahR:

You need to do some easy internet research. Pick a region (“Napa” or “Burgundy” for example) and lookup a vintage report. Ratings are too simplistic.

Again, it’s not varietal but region. Varietal comes second, in that certain varietals are picked early vs late and this may experience different weather during ripening and harvesting.

If you want to take a complex example: 2011 Northern California. It doesn’t get a good overall rating and was considered, in napa at least, a difficult year, mostly because it was relatively cool, which can be a boon if the growing season is long, but a lot of late season rains led to mildew problems in the valley, and cabernet farmers either picked less ripe, or suffered partial crop loss to mildew, or had some dilution because of the rain. That affected quite a number of producers. HOWEVER, Cabernet growers with hillside plots did fairly well because they didn’t suffer the same mildew problems, and growers of earlier ripening varietals, and especially Pinot, where cool climates breed good acidity and depth, picked before the rains and thus made some wonderful wines.

So vintage charts are incomplete, and it takes time to tease out what makes a good vintage for a given wine. Sorry this complicates things. Go buy 2005 Bordeaux - a great vintage.

Very good explanation and yes, this just complicated things even more!

I do see what you are saying and will work my way through that. Now that you specifically mention 2005 vintages, I am in the market to put together a number of different 2005’s for next year as it is my 10 year wedding anniversary. Could you refer me to some dynamite value '05 bourdeax and/or burgundy? I know nothing about french wine and any direction would be helpful.

The bottom line is that vintage charts can be misleading or downright worthless. Because, as stated above, even in “bad years” some grape growers did well and/or some wineries’ wine makers performed magic and the end product is magnificent. The obverse is also true. In some “good years” some farmers picked too early or late or had disease problems and/or some wine makers screwed the pooch.

NoahR · March 5, 2014, 6:17pm

A lot of high end 2005 bordeaux and burgundy is still not in its drinking window yet, and dynamite value is very relative. For a Special Occasion wine that’s not a bank-breaker, take a look on WineBid - I see a 2005 Lascombes (Margaux) and 2005 Montrose (St. Estephe) at very reasonable prices. If you want to spend $300+ on the 2005 Pavie, be my guest, as I’m sure it’s fantastic. Some of the Cru Bourgeois wines are bargains and I would check your local stores and online merchants and look at ratings on CellarTracker to see if you think it’s worth it, then compare prices on Wine-Searcher. That’s basically my methodology. WineBid charges 15% off the top plus reasonable shipping, so compare that to sales tax locally and shipping elsewhere.
Best,
N.