Another n00b with questions

Hi there. (Yes, you can say that just like the start of Peter Gabriel’s “Big Time” if you wish.)

I’m hoping I can get a little help cutting down my learning curve. Lately we’ve been on a white wine kick - her with riesling, me with vouvray. I’m finding a big difference in the taste of what I thought would be similar. I’m not talking about different styles; I know a semi-dry will have much less residual sugar than a mellow. I’m talking about a 2005 Huet first selection versus a 2008 Huet first selection. A neophyte would expect some changes, but sometimes there are BIG changes. Another thing I’ve noticed is the difference age makes. I’ve tried a 2008 Huet regular mellow, a 2002 regular mellow, and a 1995 regular mellow that are noticeably less sweet as they get older, so much so with the 1995 that I had to double check the bottle for “demi-sec”. Seriously, it struck me as having the same residual sugar content as a 2008 Huet semi-dry. This has all brought up a few questions:

  1. Is it a good rule of thumb that the older decent vouvray gets, the less sweet it becomes?
  2. Is it also a rule of thumb that the older the vintage, the longer it should be decanted?
  3. How is it that the same style wine made from grapes picked the same year by the same company but from 2 different vineyards (i.e. Clos du Bourg versus Le Mont versus Le Haut Lieu) have such a change in character? Is it slight differences in the soil, small changes in the amount of noble rot, or other factors?
  4. Why does vouvray seem to taste better the second and third day after opening (being kept in the fridge, obviously)?
  5. What characteristics should I look for in a vouvray for better potential drinking after long term storage?

Thanks for any help you can give a rank amateur like me!

what is regular mellow? i want/need some.

If I made a mistake on terminology, you’ll have to forgive me. I did put “n00b” right in the title after all.

In 2008, Huet’s labels for demi-sec (which even I know is semi-dry) and moellux (what I call regular mellow) look like this:

That same vintage, Huet’s premiere trie (first selection) look like this:

So what I’ve referring to with ‘regular mellow’ is their moelleux that is NOT their first selection / premiere trie.

  1. Yes - but the vintage variations can be huge when noble rot is vital in making that wine
  2. Can be palate preference, can be it’s very young and like a vigorous decant, the additional oxygen helps open the wine out. Age works in a similar manner but it’s not as easy as saying aeration works the same way as ageing.
  3. very difficult to answer, but intuitively it’s the reverse - a younger wine might need the air, where a very old wine might fall apart within an hour of opening… and then you have the Audouze method discussed often here which in a way defies logic, but clearly there is something in it.

p.s. Moelleux I recall translates as ‘marrow’ as in marrow bone - suggesting a richer than normal wine.

p.p.s Huet wines can be very variable even in the same wine and same vintage - more so with age as cork variation adds to bottle variation. What was the old adage “No such thing as great wines, only great bottles”?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vouvray_(wine)
See definitions of levels if sweetness in Vouvray.

What do you know - right in the Wiki article: The term Moelleux is French for “mellow”.

Moelleux is pronounced “mwah luh”

  1. Is it a good rule of thumb that the older decent vouvray gets, the less sweet it becomes?

Yes, in general, sweeter wines are less sweet with age. However, remember many Vouvrays are bone dry so that question would really only apply to the sweet ones (not marked Sec).

  1. Is it also a rule of thumb that the older the vintage, the longer it should be decanted? No. It depends on many factors, the producer and vintage chief among them, but also the wine. Its hard to know other than by asking, looking up notes or experience.

  2. How is it that the same style wine made from grapes picked the same year by the same company but from 2 different vineyards (i.e. Clos du Bourg versus Le Mont versus Le Haut Lieu) have such a change in character? Is it slight differences in the soil, small changes in the amount of noble rot, or other factors?

Mostly different vineyards. The whole notion of Terroir is evident in the Huet wines.

  1. Why does vouvray seem to taste better the second and third day after opening (being kept in the fridge, obviously)?
    That is usually a sign the bottle was perhaps opened too early and cellaring might be appropriate (if you have a good cellar).

  2. What characteristics should I look for in a vouvray for better potential drinking after long term storage?
    See 4 above for a great clue. Does it open in the glass. Is the last glass from the bottle the best? Vintage charts are both worthless and helpful. The exceptions swallow the rule, but they still give clues in the absence of other info. In Vouvray, sweeter wines will tend to age better. More complex wines tend to age better. While balance is key, if there is a lack of acidity, that can often mean it wont age well.

JM2C

Thanks for any help you can give a rank amateur like me![/quote]

Dennis -

Specific questions on the ageability of Vouvray across styles and from a selection across 2 decades moves you out of the “noob” category in my book.

You might think of the sweetness in Chenin or Riesling as you might think about primary fruit in reds meant to age. As the years go by that primary fruit becomes secondary and more and more leather, forest floor and other broader flavors come out. I don’t want to imply that the same thing happens chemically, but my impression has always been that there is a parallel path with sweeter wines.

Check out Foreau in Vouvray for another producer with a terrific range of dry to sweet, and remember on the drier wines that well made Chenin often has a dumb phase somewhere in the 3 to 10 year period and then can really open back up and live for a long time after that.

Last note - you say “she is into Riesling, me Vouvray”. I’d hope you are matching the quality of producers in Germany. There are so many pitfalls with unbalanced, sweet Riesling, but so many highs if you find the equivalent of Huet and Foreau.

Thanks for the help everyone! We’ve been having a lot of fun trying different years and vineyards.

Yes, we’ve noticed that some Riesling is really one dimensional and others can explode with flavors. So far we both like J.J. Prüm, particularly 2007 Graacher Himmelreich - both the spatlese and auslese. J.J. Christoffel is very nice also.

I’ll give Foreau a try also. Thanks!