Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

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Mark Golodetz
 
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #1  Postby Mark Golodetz » May 19th 2017, 9:14am

Not a problem for me, but just curious why.
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Alan Rath
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #2  Postby Alan Rath » May 19th 2017, 3:42pm

Guess it depends on what you mean by "taken off". Cognac doesn't have the "it" factor of bourbon, or even Scotch. Thankfully! But it's still hard to get the good stuff at reasonable prices. Even the mass produced versions, like Hennessy XO, are like $200 now. I have a couple bottles bought at Heathrow Duty Free for 60 pounds several years ago. Can't find that any more.

I suspect it's because Cognac is considered to be too "frilly" compared to Bourbon. And you don't see Cognacs all tricked out with tons of smoke, peat, burnt wood, etc. It's a much more subtle drink, not well suited for an ad campaign. Even thought they've tried.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #3  Postby c fu » May 19th 2017, 4:54pm

Hm. Don't know about that. There are some crazy expensive btls of cognac out there. I wonder if it's more because cognac isn't as "age" transparent in the labeling so it's tough for new people to get into it?

Alan: go to 99 ranch market. Plenty of Hennessy xo
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #4  Postby Chris Blum » May 19th 2017, 5:01pm

Bourbon is flat out ridiculous. That's not a good yardstick. Cognac has gone up, just not at all like bourbon. And it seems to be the usual suspects that have soaked up much of the new money. I love the top stuff from makers that you never read about.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #5  Postby Craig G » May 20th 2017, 4:26am

c fu wrote:Alan: go to 99 ranch market. Plenty of Hennessy xo
We were worried it would be fake ;)
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Corey N.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #6  Postby Corey N. » May 20th 2017, 5:26am

Craig G wrote:
c fu wrote:Alan: go to 99 ranch market. Plenty of Hennessy xo
We were worried it would be fake ;)

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Alan Rath
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #7  Postby Alan Rath » May 20th 2017, 9:10am

c fu wrote:Hm. Don't know about that. There are some crazy expensive btls of cognac out there. I wonder if it's more because cognac isn't as "age" transparent in the labeling so it's tough for new people to get into it?

Alan: go to 99 ranch market. Plenty of Hennessy xo

Age thing could be part of it, not as obvious, like Scotch and Armagnac (but then Armagnac doesn't have any cache either).

Will check out R99, one just a few blocks away. I buy my lobster there, sometimes fish.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #8  Postby Sarah Kirschbaum » May 21st 2017, 8:33am

I'd say it's more that there's less to be fashionable about cognac. What's taken off so crazily in scotch and bourbon is largely the notion of small batch, single cask, cask strength, age statements etc. which gives people something limited and rare to chase and facts and figures to memorize and recite. Cognac's raison d'etre is about smooth consistency, so those looking for an emphasis on individual expression aren't going to find it in cognac. Rare old bottles, sure, but not nearly the same thing.

I wonder if the fact that Cognac was pretty much out of the game for a while due to phylloxera, which provided opportunity for blended whisky to fill a gap for that smooth, consistent product, contributed to the current hierarchy? An early step towards where we are now, perhaps.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #9  Postby Alan Rath » May 23rd 2017, 4:58pm

c fu wrote:Alan: go to 99 ranch market. Plenty of Hennessy xo

$180 at my nearby store. But I did score a 2+ lb lobster for $15/lb [wow.gif]
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #10  Postby Humberto Dorta » July 31st 2017, 5:50am

Um...cognac prices at the upper tier have gone way crazier than bourbon as a group. Granted VWs escalation is unprecedented and the Antique collection almost as insane. Cognac prices above vsop seem to have escalated dramatically en masse. Most of the xos have gone up almost if not 100% in price in the past 5 years, paradis has gone up from 300 just 4 years ago to 700 to 1000 today, extravagant versions of all the big houses that were non existent in the us market 5 years ago are now everywhere in the 2 to 5k range. And numerous bottles make pappy 25 seem like a bargain...
Maybe its because they started more expensive that the escalation seems less dramatic.

Single malts are headed in that direction too sadly. Laphroaig 25 went from 300 to 500+ in just two years :(
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Alan Rath
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #11  Postby Alan Rath » July 31st 2017, 5:47pm

Finally gave in and opened my last Hennessy XO. Yummy.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #12  Postby Eric Ifune » August 1st 2017, 4:12pm

Have you seen the prices for Remy Martin's Black Pearl Louis XIII?
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #13  Postby Frank Drew » August 3rd 2017, 5:12pm

I like Cognac a lot more than Bourbon but I thought they were having trouble selling the stuff, Fussigny labelling it Nyak for the bar crowd, and other abominations. I guess not, from what you guys are saying.
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Great bottles of Scotch and Bourbon have really taken off, why not Cognac?

Post #14  Postby Mont Stern » October 1st 2017, 4:35pm

Humberto Dorta wrote:Um...cognac prices at the upper tier have gone way crazier than bourbon as a group. Granted VWs escalation is unprecedented and the Antique collection almost as insane. Cognac prices above vsop seem to have escalated dramatically en masse. Most of the xos have gone up almost if not 100% in price in the past 5 years, paradis has gone up from 300 just 4 years ago to 700 to 1000 today, extravagant versions of all the big houses that were non existent in the us market 5 years ago are now everywhere in the 2 to 5k range. And numerous bottles make pappy 25 seem like a bargain...
Maybe its because they started more expensive that the escalation seems less dramatic.

Single malts are headed in that direction too sadly. Laphroaig 25 went from 300 to 500+ in just two years :(


I am a fan of Hors d'Age Cognacs and the prices of them have gone out of site. When I first started drinking Hennessey Paradis it was $150 a bottle. Fortunately I hoarded some "dusties" of several at this level and some Kelt Petra which blows away just about everything else out there. Louis XIII has always been overpriced and more about the bottle and marketing.

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