When wineries you support deep discount...

Pardon the convoluted Subject - probably need a lot of words to explain myself.

Recently, a winery I have supported with automatic direct ordering of everything for ten years had one of their wines on Cinderella. I had a number of conflicting thoughts…

  1. I hope they are staying afloat.
  2. If they are discounting wine that deeply directly or indirectly to Gary V., shouldn’t they be sharing the same offer with loyal supporters? (They routinely offer 20% off deals - but not 50% off deals.)
  3. I should drop off of their list after a decade and just look for deals.
  4. But if I do number 3, won’t I just be contributing to their downfall (if #1 is indeed a problem)?
  5. I should ask them to match the discount on a reorder.

Ultimately, I did nothing, and in their most recent shipment they are throwing in a free bottle of wine to everyone as a nice enough gesture, but still.

Anyway, have you seen a favorite winery (and especially one on which you are on the list) distribute via deep discount and how do you react?

Aside from serious cash flow issues, I can see a winery stuck with, e.g. 20 cases of something that they want to move - Gary V does a deal with them for a deep enough discount that it it hits Cinderella. Or he does the deal with a distributor vs the winery. IN either case they get cash for inventory that’s not moving for some reason, he gets a great deal that he can pass on to people like you, you get a great deal on a wine made by people whose product you like. Where’s the downside here?

As for making them match the offer on reorders etc. People have sales - sometimes to clear out inventory, sometimes because they need cash to survive, etc. Just because they or their distributor did a one time deal with Gary V why on earth would they be under any obligation to match that? Now, if you’re saying “Hey, they did it once, can’t hurt to ask” well, no it can’t.

Chris,
Happens all the time with us ITB. We buy and then it is discounted down the road. There is not any OOPS sorry let me give you something to make up for it, things are different in our world.
That’s all I will say otherwise I’ll be bitching my head off AGAIN about the subject !

Go ahead and bitch… we’ll listen! [berserker.gif]

I think what bothered me was less what they did and more my reaction #3. I think of myself as a fairly typical consumer - wine or otherwise. When consumers get trained to look for a lower price, it’s hard to untrain that instinct.

Rick - I sure can’t tell them what to do.

But I think about this kind of thing very economically, and my internal process goes… If their average bottle of wine is a $30 of wine (assuming, for the moment, that price corresponds to quality) and I feel like it is worth it (or let’s say worth $24, as part of the loyalty program). But they are selling that average bottle elsewhere for $15 (actually less, given the retailer cut), should I keep supporting these guys because I like them and their product or should I look for the guy selling a $60 quality bottle for $30? $9 worth of goodwill per bottle from me is a lot of goodwill.

When you (the winery) basically have a loyalty program for long-term customers and then undercut the message (value) of the loyalty program, with (relatively public) deep discounting, aren’t you giving long-term customers a reason to wander off?

Cinderella is an interesting thing because they don’t name the wine in the e-mail. You have to have a basic interest before you open the link. But it isn’t the Priceline model because you do know exactly what you are purchasing before you purchase.

Somebody suggest if this should be in another part of the BB because it is less retailer oriented and more winery oriented. I probably find these things way more interesting than I should!

I’ve had a similar experience as a consumer. 2 wineries that I like and whose wine clubs I’m a part of will have a wine show-up on one of the discount/liquidation web sites from time to time. I also mentally consider if it’s one of their wines I’ve purchased (or been sent thru their club) and what I paid versus what the discount deal is.
But then I also somewhat correlate this to retailers I frequent who may have a sale tomorrow on something I just bought today. Best comparison I can use is a warehouse club, for which I pay to be a member. It’s not uncommon for me to buy the 36 pack of paper towels today, then find a $3.00 off coupon for the same item in their sale flyer tomorrow. I usually chalk that up to my bad timing and wicked coincidence.
The one difference that I have to say between the 2 wineries with whom I have this experience…one of them never acknowledges these “side deals” to their club members. The other will usually send an email to club members the day before to say “hey, look for this great deal on our wine tomorrow on xxx site”. I think the latter is a more respectful and forth-right manner of handling the situation, and I feel more bonded to that club than I do to the other.

That is a great approach - I think I will suggest it to the winery to which I’ve been referring. It’s a good way to spin potential consumer angst into a positive thing. Gives them a chance to support the retailer, too.

But… you do realize that thewinery doesn’t see anything close to retail price from retail wines, right? That you’re contributing a TON to margin when you buy direct at anything like suggested retail? In a typical retail situation that $30 of wine was bought for the store for about $20 and by the distributor for ~$15… so selling the wine to, say, Gary V at $10 isn’t THAT bad of a hit.

Buying wine direct is great for provenance but you are absolutely getting screwed pricewise IF you look at it from a margin percentage. However, it’s the same price to you in the end and you do get a provenance advantage, so…

Chris, you should just yell at Leenda. I assume it’s her winery you are referring to?

It isn’t - though that’s a fun thread too.

Not in quite the same category, but after many years on the Togni mailing list, I saw their cab at retail for less than I had paid, so I stopped buying from the mailing list. OTOH I never did go and buy it at retail either. I just kinda lost interest. What if the year they raised their cab price from $80 to $90, they instead lowered it to $70? Would I still be buying it every year directly from them (at a much higher profit for them)?

Interesting thread . . . .

As a supporter of a winery, you owe it to yourself to ‘speak’ with them and have them let you know what is happening . . . Perhaps it is out of their hands, perhaps not.

If I was a wine club member and found a wine I just purchased below my wine club discount, I would certainly tell the winery that this is not cool - period . . .

Cheers!

I support our local Oregon Pinot Noir producers. If I found some of my favorites at deep discounts I would back up the truck and thank my good luck. It isn’t going to happen soon I am afraid.

You pose a series of good questions, Chris. I think my reaction to this occurrence is basically the same as yours. I certainly will take advantage of the retail deal, if it’s worth it to me. I’ll stay on the list if there’s still something in it for me (perhaps other wines in the producer’s stable are not available at retail; perhaps a discount given to list members on all wine purchases outweighs occasionally paying more than retail).

Chris, sorry, I don’t know your position… are you a retailer, distributor, or consumer?

I guess it doesn’t matter, the answer is the same. It’s tough out there and almost everyone in the industry is now trying everything to survive and move back inventory. If you are ITB and in the position to move as much wine as GaryV, you should definitely hit the winery up (or work with your distributor) to be able to offer it at the same price. If you’re a consumer, it never hurts to quietly ask the winery to match the deal Wine Library, Cinderella, or whoever is offering. I don’t know if they will. I don’t know if I would. And I say quietly, because wineries do not want to be in competition with the few retailers selling wine.

Hi Randy - I was asking as a consumer. This has been a nice thread (and great to get all of the different perspectives) - I liked Chad’s approach a lot.

Ken - I meant to reply that while your situation is different, I think the the ‘message’ that the consumer got was identical. The danger for the producer is that once you break the consumer’s habit of supporting the winery, who knows if you’ll lose them altogether.

Dennis - I’m not sure what your favorites are, but half my cellar is Oregon and Oregon wineries are having as much trouble as anyone. Yes, this was an offer on an Oregon wine. And I’m seeing a lot of deals on OPN.

A winery that I love and am on the list for, just had an obvious closeout on Cinderella for a prior year’s vintage, and at half the original price. So, rather than get pissed about it, I bought six more. [thankyou.gif]

I’ve had a local winery sell me the same wine on two occasions as a club member (obviously it wasn’t good enough to sell out after the first batch went out and they were stuck trying to offload their inventory) and then seen the same wine for even cheaper at Costco a few months later.

This seems to happen with every club I’ve ever joined.

So, I’m not a member of any wine clubs.
There are too many deeply discounted good wines available these days to remain loyal to some winery that is ripping you off while selling their wines to someone else (who isn’t a repeat customer) for cheaper.

I had always thought a winery would support their local customer base, instead they seem to view you (‘us’?) as easy marks for high margins and they pass the deals on to other people.

I’ve decided to become one of the ‘other’ people. It’s more affordable, I drink better wine and I have more money.

I hope everyone else doesn’t follow my lead, or I won’t be getting high quality wine subsidized by ignorant locals.

-Leland

This is why I started the thread. Great to get all of the different perspectives and I appreciate all of the different views. FWIW…

I did e-mail the winery per the idea that I got from Chad’s post. It was 100% positive. Along the lines of “I saw blah… your customers might appreciate blah… it would even help the retailer to let your customers know about blah…”

And I didn’t get a reply. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Now I’m more inclined to drop off of their list, after getting every single one of their wines for ten years. You’d think they’d at least reply, no?

I know of a few cases where it was a distributor deeply discounting a specific wine on their own. In those cases the wineries were extremely upset at what they felt were ethical lapses, devaluing their wines and image. In those cases, you can bet it’s the last time that distributor carries that winery.

Also, we’ve all seen distributors deeply discount a line after a distribution change.

So, don’t assume it has anything to do with the winery, or that they approve in the least.