Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
A. Mishaan
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 50
Joined: July 11th 2010, 9:04am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #1  Postby A. Mishaan » January 21st 2014, 12:25pm

I'm surprised there's no thread on this (that I saw anyhow). I guess it's behind the paywall, but here is a very small excerpt (totally fair use):

Most recently we had the low alcohol movement (I'm not sure if one can even call it a "movement"), which is/was essentially a phony anti-California, anti-New World movement by Eurocentric, self-proclaimed purists. I say "self-proclaimed" because what they espouse - and denounce - perverts the word "pure". This has been spurred on by a very tiny group of wine producers who claim Europe as their spiritual mentor, which would be fine were it not for the fact that the along the way, they virtually trash just about everything in the USA, South America or Australia. Their preferred method of wine production is the crazy notion that fruit should be picked long before it's ripe. Of course, anyone can pick grapes a month before they're ripe. There is no risk, with chances of rain virtually zero. Get the grapes harvested and fermented and go on vacation in early October, when the serious producers are just beginning to start their harvests. Are those producers fools for busting their asses trying to make something with flavors reflecting the vintage and character of their terroir? Under-ripe fruit never has and never will show more terroir. It just brings hard, harsh, unpleasant flavors that a few wannabes and some lazy, self-aggrandizing producers then call terroir. Truth be known, it detracts from terroir, and from quality, so just repeating it ad nauseum doesn't equate to the truth. Has anyone enjoyed eating an under-ripe apricot, peach apple, tomato or pineapple?

But, even these Euro-elitists have it wrong. They often quote from ancient texts. How do they explain the following extract from the late Richard Olney's book, "Romanée-Conti - The World's Most Fabled Wine", published in 1995 by Rizzoli International Publications, New York, New York. Page 79 contains this passage regarding the diary notes of the estate's proprietor:

This is from the diary notes at Romanée-Conti by the proprietor J.-M. Duvault-Blochet, who published vintage notes for 47 years, from 1822 to 1868. He defined quality as, "At 11.5% one makes barely passable wines, at 12% one makes decent, marketable wines, at 12.5% above average, at 12.75% lively, firm and ruby, at 13% and 13.5% one makes great wines, at 14, 14.5, 15 and 15.5% one makes altogether exceptional, incomparable wines."

Why is it that nearly 150 years ago the proprietor of the world's most famous vineyard then (and probably now) knew more about quality than today's neo-intellectuals and extremists? Moreover, what about some sommeliers and retail wine buyers who refuse to purchase any wine in excess of 13 or 14% alcohol. How would the broad litmus test fare in the mid-1800s with the wines of Domaine de la Romanée Conti? Sommeliers following such nonsense would have wine enthusiasts drinking "barely passable" wines.


http://www.erobertparker.com/members/ar ... erit55.asp
Al Mishaan
NY, NY

Advertisement

User avatar
todd waldmann
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 4240
Joined: June 5th 2009, 7:51pm
Location: boise, idaho

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #2  Postby todd waldmann » January 21st 2014, 12:29pm

I enjoy Mr. Parker's binary world view.
“Burgundy is, well, Burgundy. A minefield of potential disappointments beloved by elitists and pseudo-intellectuals who like to discuss ad nauseam growers and terroirs—not quality.” RMP
User avatar
M. Linzbach
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 843
Joined: January 18th 2010, 9:35pm

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #3  Postby M. Linzbach » January 21st 2014, 12:30pm

I'm not sure Bob wrote this as there are not enough "..." in the post. newhere
--Matt

Salesman to wife -- It folds up to a fraction of its size.
Me to salesman -- 11/10ths is a fraction and I still don't want it in my basement.
Wife to me -- Death stare. She wins the argument, salesman makes his commission.
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9814
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #4  Postby John Morris » January 21st 2014, 12:36pm

Are we a bit bitter, Bob? Whoa!

FYI, there were LONG discussions on the Parker board years back about the Duvault-Blochet quote. Alcohol measurements in his day were VERY approximate, so you can't put much weight on that statement.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
A. Mishaan
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 50
Joined: July 11th 2010, 9:04am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #5  Postby A. Mishaan » January 21st 2014, 12:37pm

I realized I forgot to include an example of the fascist imagery that appears more than once:

Of course, they would have you believe some godforsaken grapes that, in hundreds and hundreds of years of viticulture, wine consumption, etc., have never gotten traction because they are rarely of interest (such as Trousseau, Savagnin, Grand Noir, Negrette, Lignan Blanc, Peloursin, Auban, Calet, Fongoneu and Blaufrankisch) can produce wines (in truth, rarely palatable unless lost in a larger blend) that consumers should be beating a path to buy and drink. Most aren't, and just how absurd this notion is becomes evident when the results are oxidized, stale, stink of fecal matter as well as look like orange juice or rusty ice tea being poured into a glass and passed off as "authentic", "natural" or "real" wine. This is the epitome of cyber-group goose-stepping, a completely deranged syndrome that somehow the internet has allowed to persist.
Al Mishaan
NY, NY
User avatar
Larry P
SubscriberSubscriber
Bacchus and Vesuvius
 
Posts: 6358
Joined: June 21st 2010, 3:13pm
Location: Livermore, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #6  Postby Larry P » January 21st 2014, 12:41pm

I think this stuff is best left for the deaf ears of the ebob board.
P ! g g ! n s

"You keep me searching for a heart of gold" - Neil Young
"Metal heart, you're not worth a thing" - Cat Power
A. Mishaan
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 50
Joined: July 11th 2010, 9:04am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #7  Postby A. Mishaan » January 21st 2014, 12:42pm

Larry P wrote:I think this stuff is best left for the deaf ears of the ebob board.


Come on, it's funny.
Al Mishaan
NY, NY
User avatar
Anton D
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 11509
Joined: October 17th 2013, 11:25am
Location: Chico, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #8  Postby Anton D » January 21st 2014, 12:44pm

Bob likes raisins, I like grapes.
Anton Dotson
User avatar
Mark B
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2006
Joined: August 5th 2013, 12:20pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #9  Postby Mark B » January 21st 2014, 12:50pm

Can we extrapolate that Parker despises Champagne as it is a non-fortified wine that never exceeds 13% abv?
M@rk "Drinx" Boldizs@r
User avatar
Pat Martin
 
Posts: 1699
Joined: May 22nd 2011, 11:38pm

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #10  Postby Pat Martin » January 21st 2014, 12:52pm

Who is this guy and what did he do with Bob Parker?

Or was he always this angry and delusional, but kept it mostly to himself as he was the sole owner of the WA?
P@tr!ck MArt!n
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9814
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #11  Postby John Morris » January 21st 2014, 12:54pm

Rereading his description and list of grapes, it sounds like the guiding philosophy of Chambers St., Crush and Flatiron.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
Michael Powers
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2695
Joined: March 6th 2010, 2:47pm
Location: St. Louis

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #12  Postby Michael Powers » January 21st 2014, 12:58pm

"Their preferred method of wine production is the crazy notion that fruit should be picked long before it's ripe. Of course, anyone can pick grapes a month before they're ripe. There is no risk, with chances of rain virtually zero. Get the grapes harvested and fermented and go on vacation in early October, when the serious producers are just beginning to start their harvests."

Pretty sure no one has ever suggested harvesting fruit "long before it's ripe." Must be nice to just redraw a line and make everyone else's argument "extremist."

Is this the same rant from a couple of months ago? He railed against what he percieves as fringe grapes not that long ago, and commented that a "real man" wouldn't drink wines made from those grapes. Leaving the reader to infer that Bob was a real man. If alcohol content makes the man, why bother with wine at all? Cut straight to the hard stuff and skip all this foreplay.

Bob's idea of hell must be some time spent in the Jura, with his professed hatred of Trousseau and Savagnin. I've never had a Calet or a Lignan blanc, but I suspect I should try to find some based on his statements. I've certainly had nice trousseau, savignin and blaufrankish.

In the end its always the same with this guy: More is always better, less is not only bad but rather a personal afront on all that is good and proper.
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9814
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #13  Postby John Morris » January 21st 2014, 1:13pm

Can you say "straw man"?

Of course, yesterday's fringe grape is today's great grape. A generation ago in the English-speaking world, very few grapes from outside France ever got any kind of respect outside of obscure reference works.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
brodie thomson
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 700
Joined: May 23rd 2010, 9:25am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #14  Postby brodie thomson » January 21st 2014, 1:18pm

John Morris wrote:Can you say "straw man"?.


Yes and I was thinking FALSE DICHOTOMY as well.

(ooh I love using "false dichotomy" in a sentence [wow.gif] )

Brodie
User avatar
Richard T r i m p i
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 5845
Joined: September 11th 2009, 1:29pm
Location: Close to William Penn's Walking Purchase

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #15  Postby Richard T r i m p i » January 21st 2014, 1:33pm

The bitterness is nothing new. He's suffered a huge amount of criticism over the past several years. The man helped raise American awareness about fine wines beyond any predecessor. Will he someday let the hostility go and embrace the fact that his preferences may not suit everyone? Can a wine be great, or even good, unless he or a WA employee says so? It's Bob and disciples vs. the forces of evil. Sadly, the definition of evil appears to have swept up a lot independent wine lovers along with unscrupulous ITBers, profiteering pseudo-journalists, blobbers and natural wine extremists.

RT
dbailey
 
Posts: 2716
Joined: September 7th 2009, 8:44am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #16  Postby dbailey » January 21st 2014, 1:40pm

Classic example of why posting when drunk is a bad idea.
Dan
User avatar
Jay Miller
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9411
Joined: June 19th 2009, 5:18pm
Location: Jersey City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #17  Postby Jay Miller » January 21st 2014, 1:40pm

Nice to know I'm not missing anything over there.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.
User avatar
G. Bienstock
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: December 29th 2009, 7:32pm
Location: Reno, NV

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #18  Postby G. Bienstock » January 21st 2014, 1:46pm

There is ripe fruit and then there is overripe fruit. I like the former he likes the latter and Parker is no longer of use to me.
Glenn

Positive Rastaman Vibration

ITB 1999-2005
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9814
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #19  Postby John Morris » January 21st 2014, 1:57pm

Richard T r i m p i wrote:The bitterness is nothing new. He's suffered a huge amount of criticism over the past several years. The man helped raise American awareness about fine wines beyond any predecessor. Will he someday let the hostility go and embrace the fact that his preferences may not suit everyone? Can a wine be great, or even good, unless he or a WA employee says so? It's Bob and disciples vs. the forces of evil. Sadly, the definition of evil appears to have swept up a lot independent wine lovers along with unscrupulous ITBers, profiteering pseudo-journalists, blobbers and natural wine extremists.

RT


You get the feeling that Asimov's columns are really getting to him, don't you?
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9814
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #20  Postby John Morris » January 21st 2014, 1:59pm

dbailey wrote:Classic example of why posting when drunk is a bad idea.


He's not that coherent when he posts after drinking, Dan. By contrast, this looks carefully honed.
Last edited by John Morris on January 21st 2014, 3:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
User avatar
Larry P
SubscriberSubscriber
Bacchus and Vesuvius
 
Posts: 6358
Joined: June 21st 2010, 3:13pm
Location: Livermore, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #21  Postby Larry P » January 21st 2014, 1:59pm

A. Mishaan wrote:
Larry P wrote:I think this stuff is best left for the deaf ears of the ebob board.


Come on, it's funny.


Might seem funny at first, but after a while, it's just sad.
P ! g g ! n s

"You keep me searching for a heart of gold" - Neil Young
"Metal heart, you're not worth a thing" - Cat Power
User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
SubscriberSubscriber
Rieslingfan
 
Posts: 19001
Joined: February 14th 2009, 9:06am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #22  Postby D@vid Bu3ker » January 21st 2014, 2:10pm

Michael Powers wrote:Bob's idea of hell must be some time spent in the Jura


Not just Bob.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan
User avatar
Chris Seiber
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
Omnivinovore
 
Posts: 6857
Joined: April 28th 2010, 3:22pm
Location: Newport Beach, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #23  Postby Chris Seiber » January 21st 2014, 2:26pm

That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.

To me, the beauty of wine is the infinite different expressions of all the different grapes, from different harvest times, to different terroir and climate, to different winemaking techniques, to different vintages, at different ages, etc. And those of us who collect a diverse cellar of good wines in many styles, we get to experience the diversity and the ability to match wines to mood, company, food, weather, time of day, etc.

I have never understood people on either side of the spectrum who think this is some kind of either/or, us versus them, thing, like you're a Michigan fan or you're an Ohio State fan. Like you have to exalt one thing and tear the others down. Drink what you like, by all means, but this isn't some kind of tribal war of us against them.
"Appreciating old wine is like making love to a very old lady. It is possible. It can even be enjoyable. But it requires a bit of imagination." - Andre Tchelistcheff
User avatar
Jay Miller
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9411
Joined: June 19th 2009, 5:18pm
Location: Jersey City

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #24  Postby Jay Miller » January 21st 2014, 2:35pm

Chris Seiber wrote:That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.

To me, the beauty of wine is the infinite different expressions of all the different grapes, from different harvest times, to different terroir and climate, to different winemaking techniques, to different vintages, at different ages, etc. And those of us who collect a diverse cellar of good wines in many styles, we get to experience the diversity and the ability to match wines to mood, company, food, weather, time of day, etc.

I have never understood people on either side of the spectrum who think this is some kind of either/or, us versus them, thing, like you're a Michigan fan or you're an Ohio State fan. Like you have to exalt one thing and tear the others down. Drink what you like, by all means, but this isn't some kind of tribal war of us against them.


The difference is, once again, that he is not just saying that he hates (for example) Trousseau but is attacking anyone who claims to like it.

FWIW the first Trousseau I had was a CA wine which I loved - the 1998 Wild Horse Trousseau San Benito Siletto Ranch Vineyard. I ended up trying trousseaus from the Jura as a result once I discovered how excessively rare the CA versions were.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.
Rama Roberts
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 650
Joined: September 2nd 2013, 8:03pm
Location: SF peninsula

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #25  Postby Rama Roberts » January 21st 2014, 2:48pm

todd waldmann wrote:I enjoy Mr. Parker's binary world view.


Is this different from Jon Bonne, just on the opposite side of the world?
Andrew Kaufman
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 13252
Joined: March 12th 2012, 10:09am
Location: LAX/San Fernando Valley, CA.

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #26  Postby Andrew Kaufman » January 21st 2014, 3:08pm

Rama Roberts wrote:
todd waldmann wrote:I enjoy Mr. Parker's binary world view.


Is this different from Jon Bonne, just on the opposite side of the world?


I was thinking the same thing.
User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
SubscriberSubscriber
Rieslingfan
 
Posts: 19001
Joined: February 14th 2009, 9:06am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #27  Postby D@vid Bu3ker » January 21st 2014, 3:39pm

Andrew Kaufman wrote:
Rama Roberts wrote:
todd waldmann wrote:I enjoy Mr. Parker's binary world view.


Is this different from Jon Bonne, just on the opposite side of the world?


I was thinking the same thing.


Of course it's different. A majority of active posters here agree with John Bonne. [snort.gif]
David Bueker - Rieslingfan
User avatar
Scott Brunson
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 5373
Joined: November 15th 2011, 3:55am
Location: in between coastal SC and south FL

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #28  Postby Scott Brunson » January 21st 2014, 3:40pm

Paging Bill Klapp--we have a nice, fat matzo ball hanging out there for you.
I'm not anti-RMP but this drivel is just sad and pathetic.
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
On CT, I'm S1
john holdredge
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2236
Joined: January 27th 2009, 1:37pm

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #29  Postby john holdredge » January 21st 2014, 3:42pm

Chris Seiber wrote:That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.

To me, the beauty of wine is the infinite different expressions of all the different grapes, from different harvest times, to different terroir and climate, to different winemaking techniques, to different vintages, at different ages, etc. And those of us who collect a diverse cellar of good wines in many styles, we get to experience the diversity and the ability to match wines to mood, company, food, weather, time of day, etc.

I have never understood people on either side of the spectrum who think this is some kind of either/or, us versus them, thing, like you're a Michigan fan or you're an Ohio State fan. Like you have to exalt one thing and tear the others down. Drink what you like, by all means, but this isn't some kind of tribal war of us against them.



f*ck Ohio State.
I have made the decision that too much of my time and effort is focused on things that I cannot and do not have the ability to change. It is affecting my personal life and well being. I need some time away from both venues for now… Bill "Tex" Landreth
Eye Tea Bee-
Holdredge Wines
User avatar
Alan C h a n
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: January 28th 2009, 12:39pm
Location: New York, NY

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #30  Postby Alan C h a n » January 21st 2014, 3:57pm

Regarding Parker... yawn.

As for those debating the Asimov/Bonne/AFWE vs Parker/pro-ripeness "camps", I would just advise: it's really nice when you reach the point where you know what you think is right, but you've decided to stop fighting with people on the Intenet about it.
The Amateur Wino wine blog
User avatar
kylemittskus
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: January 27th 2012, 8:38am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #31  Postby kylemittskus » January 21st 2014, 4:04pm

Chris Seiber wrote:That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.


Bravo!!!! HUGE +1!
User avatar
M.Kaplan
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 3788
Joined: April 18th 2009, 9:10am
Location: Los Angeles

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #32  Postby M.Kaplan » January 21st 2014, 4:05pm

Sometimes, a picture really is worth a thousand words


Image
---Mark
User avatar
kylemittskus
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: January 27th 2012, 8:38am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #33  Postby kylemittskus » January 21st 2014, 4:07pm

Jay Miller wrote:
Chris Seiber wrote:Snipped for space.


The difference is, once again, that he is not just saying that he hates (for example) Trousseau but is attacking anyone who claims to like it.


Jay, I'm not sure you know what "difference" means.
User avatar
Ken V
SubscriberSubscriber
Fine Wine Geek
 
Posts: 36109
Joined: January 27th 2009, 1:42pm
Location: Delmar, NY

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #34  Postby Ken V » January 21st 2014, 4:22pm

M. Linzbach wrote:I'm not sure Bob wrote this as there are not enough "..." in the post. newhere

dbailey wrote:Classic example of why posting when drunk is a bad idea.

Just to be clear, this was NOT a post on the Squires board, but rather it is an "Article of Merit" on eRP.com.

So this is not something he wrote off the top of his head.
Ken V @ s t o l @
The Fine Wine Geek
Click on the W W W button under my name to see my website.
"Don't be meek, embrace the geek." -Terry Theise
Twitter: @FineWineGeek
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #35  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 4:24pm

Scott Brunson wrote:Paging Bill Klapp--we have a nice, fat matzo ball hanging out there for you.
I'm not anti-RMP but this drivel is just sad and pathetic.


Somebody sent me the piece, and I started to post it and then dismantle it sentence by sentence. I decided that his brain is now so addled that it would not even be a challenge. Like shooting Russ and Daughters smoked fish in barrique...
User avatar
Chris Seiber
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
Omnivinovore
 
Posts: 6857
Joined: April 28th 2010, 3:22pm
Location: Newport Beach, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #36  Postby Chris Seiber » January 21st 2014, 4:26pm

Jay Miller wrote:
Chris Seiber wrote:That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.

To me, the beauty of wine is the infinite different expressions of all the different grapes, from different harvest times, to different terroir and climate, to different winemaking techniques, to different vintages, at different ages, etc. And those of us who collect a diverse cellar of good wines in many styles, we get to experience the diversity and the ability to match wines to mood, company, food, weather, time of day, etc.

I have never understood people on either side of the spectrum who think this is some kind of either/or, us versus them, thing, like you're a Michigan fan or you're an Ohio State fan. Like you have to exalt one thing and tear the others down. Drink what you like, by all means, but this isn't some kind of tribal war of us against them.


The difference is, once again, that he is not just saying that he hates (for example) Trousseau but is attacking anyone who claims to like it.

FWIW the first Trousseau I had was a CA wine which I loved - the 1998 Wild Horse Trousseau San Benito Siletto Ranch Vineyard. I ended up trying trousseaus from the Jura as a result once I discovered how excessively rare the CA versions were.


I respectfully disagree. It's quite common for the AFWE form rant to say that the people who drink those wines are score whores, point chasers, don't think for themselves, have a palate from eating McDonalds and drinking Coke, and so forth. And even when it isn't explicitly stated, it's about one millimeter below the surface -- if you're saying SQN and QC and KB taste like vodka kool aid or a McDonald's blueberry milkshake or pancake syrup, then it's quite clear that the point is to say that people spending hundreds of dollars on those wines are rubes and suckers and beneath you.

It would be the easiest thing to criticize those wines or say that you don't like the style without the explicit or all-but-explicit condescension and snobbery towards those who like those wines (for example, read a Frank Murray tasting note sometimes -- he dislikes pinots like KB, but he's doesn't denigrate anyone who does in the slightest in his TNs), but some choose not to approach it in that way, I assume deliberately.

Anyway, not life and death stuff by any means, just an opportunity to gain some perspective on how a rant like Parker's is sometimes mirrored on the other side of the "debate," and how it looks outside the bubble of like-minded people high fiving each other and giggling over the slam.
"Appreciating old wine is like making love to a very old lady. It is possible. It can even be enjoyable. But it requires a bit of imagination." - Andre Tchelistcheff
User avatar
Alan Rath
 
Posts: 10836
Joined: April 24th 2009, 12:45am
Location: Fremont, Ca

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #37  Postby Alan Rath » January 21st 2014, 4:30pm

Not new, he's quoted that work a number of times before.
User avatar
todd waldmann
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 4240
Joined: June 5th 2009, 7:51pm
Location: boise, idaho

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #38  Postby todd waldmann » January 21st 2014, 4:34pm

Rama Roberts wrote:
todd waldmann wrote:I enjoy Mr. Parker's binary world view.


Is this different from Jon Bonne, just on the opposite side of the world?



Not different at all from anyone who has an equally intolerant either/or view of the wine world. I haven't read enough Jon Bonne to know if the shoe fits or not....
“Burgundy is, well, Burgundy. A minefield of potential disappointments beloved by elitists and pseudo-intellectuals who like to discuss ad nauseam growers and terroirs—not quality.” RMP
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #39  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 4:44pm

Chris Seiber wrote:That frankly sounds about like most of the AFWE rants about "Parkerized, blueberry milkshake, score whores, vodka kool aid, blah blah blah" wines, just on the opposite side of the argument.

To me, the beauty of wine is the infinite different expressions of all the different grapes, from different harvest times, to different terroir and climate, to different winemaking techniques, to different vintages, at different ages, etc. And those of us who collect a diverse cellar of good wines in many styles, we get to experience the diversity and the ability to match wines to mood, company, food, weather, time of day, etc.

I have never understood people on either side of the spectrum who think this is some kind of either/or, us versus them, thing, like you're a Michigan fan or you're an Ohio State fan. Like you have to exalt one thing and tear the others down. Drink what you like, by all means, but this isn't some kind of tribal war of us against them.


Chris, this is perhaps the 50th time you have posted this point of view. The "why can't we all get along?" approach is not resonating with people. The reason is simple...the concept of AFWE exists only in the mediocre minds of Parker and the likes of Alice Feiring. Brodie got it right: Parker's is a false dichotomy. His view of wine is extremist, and the overwhelming majority of his critics are merely attacking his extremism and restoring balance, not advocating the other extreme. The natural wine movement and Parker are both on the skids, because both embrace foolish and absolutist notions about wine that simply are not true, and each of those camps will not rest after stating their points of view, but instead, adopts and aggressively pursues a scorched-terroir policy with respect to the other's wine preference. Like you, I drink wines of many different styles. However, that I drink some wines that Parker likes as well does not make him any less arrogant or stupid, nor does it make either of us a wine genius. I reject your point of view because it is predicated upon the same strawman approach that Parker constantly spews...
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #40  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 4:51pm

John Morris wrote:Are we a bit bitter, Bob? Whoa!

FYI, there were LONG discussions on the Parker board years back about the Duvault-Blochet quote. Alcohol measurements in his day were VERY approximate, so you can't put much weight on that statement.


Not to mention Pinot Noir being blended with Rhone wines to correct vintage or winemaking problems. If Parker has cleaned up and revolutionized the world of fine wine, then can he do no better than quote somebody who posted his last note in 1868, about wines that bear no rational relationship to 20th- and 21st-century wines, and from a region that Parker has never understood? He has that quote, his own tortured interpretation of the work of Peynaud and his bromances with Michel Rolland and a few other "consultants" to buttress his myopic view. Not nearly enough...
User avatar
Chris Seiber
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
Omnivinovore
 
Posts: 6857
Joined: April 28th 2010, 3:22pm
Location: Newport Beach, CA

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #41  Postby Chris Seiber » January 21st 2014, 4:51pm

Did Bill Klapp just chide me for repeating my point of view too many times? 50 times would be a conservative estimate for you -- in one thread.

Bill, you say your thing, I'll say mine, our views will resonate or not resonate with whomever, and the world will keep turning. I will now yield the thread to you and your thoughts about Robert Parker, which I'm sure offer the board something brand new that you haven't shared repeatedly in the past.
"Appreciating old wine is like making love to a very old lady. It is possible. It can even be enjoyable. But it requires a bit of imagination." - Andre Tchelistcheff
Tom Blach
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: May 30th 2009, 10:09am

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #42  Postby Tom Blach » January 21st 2014, 4:52pm

I think Parker has hated wine for many years. It's quite understandable, but it's really time to quit.
Vincent Fritzsche
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 1555
Joined: February 11th 2009, 12:40pm
Location: Portland, OR

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #43  Postby Vincent Fritzsche » January 21st 2014, 4:58pm

I think one of the most interesting aspects of Parker's post is his logic, essentially, that if all these lesser known grapes were so good, surely people would have figured it out before now.

To me, that's pretty much the definition of anti-intellectualism. Why bother thinking because surely everything's already been thought.

But it's especially rich coming from Parker, himself the upstart back in the day, an almost new media guy who threatened the establishment and caused them to react poorly, only fueling the fire of change he represented. Hmm, sounds familiar.

Perspective is calling but looks like Parker's land line is busy.
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #44  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 5:01pm

Ken V wrote:
M. Linzbach wrote:I'm not sure Bob wrote this as there are not enough "..." in the post. newhere

dbailey wrote:Classic example of why posting when drunk is a bad idea.

Just to be clear, this was NOT a post on the Squires board, but rather it is an "Article of Merit" on eRP.com.

So this is not something he wrote off the top of his head.


Exactly, and as such, it is proof of what a bigoted and mediocre mind he possesses and what a truly crappy writer he is. Only Bob Parker would write a piece of merde like that and bury it, along with the puff piece bordering on oral sodomy that one of his neighbors did for a business-school term paper, in the root cellar that is humorously and ironically called "Articles of Merit". But that said, let me go on record as saying that Jon Bonne and Alice Feiring are equally crappy writers, save the absence of ellipses. It seems like nobody can write worth a damn on the radical fringe...
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #45  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 5:06pm

Chris Seiber wrote:Did Bill Klapp just chide me for repeating my point of view too many times? 50 times would be a conservative estimate for you -- in one thread.

Bill, you say your thing, I'll say mine, our views will resonate or not resonate with whomever, and the world will keep turning. I will now yield the thread to you and your thoughts about Robert Parker, which I'm sure offer the board something brand new that you haven't shared repeatedly in the past.


The difference, Chris, is that the only constant in my posts is my disdain for Parker. Beyond that, I have a thousand different ways to express my disdain, from highlighting inconsistencies in and destroying the logic of the garbage that he cranks out to humor at his expense. You merely recycle a single idea over and over again....
User avatar
Scott Brunson
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 5373
Joined: November 15th 2011, 3:55am
Location: in between coastal SC and south FL

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #46  Postby Scott Brunson » January 21st 2014, 5:17pm

Vincent Fritzsche wrote:I think one of the most interesting aspects of Parker's post is his logic, essentially, that if all these lesser known grapes were so good, surely people would have figured it out before now.

To me, that's pretty much the definition of anti-intellectualism. Why bother thinking because surely everything's already been thought.

But it's especially rich coming from Parker, himself the upstart back in the day, an almost new media guy who threatened the establishment and caused them to react poorly, only fueling the fire of change he represented. Hmm, sounds familiar.

Perspective is calling but looks like Parker's land line is busy.

[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]
Bonus points for being both correct and funny.
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
On CT, I'm S1
User avatar
Paul Jaouen
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 3604
Joined: January 30th 2009, 1:48pm

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #47  Postby Paul Jaouen » January 21st 2014, 5:22pm

And the folks that bought WA are OK with this idiotic rant?
Best,
Paul Jaouen
User avatar
Bill Klapp (deactivated)
 
Posts: 5039
Joined: June 27th 2009, 12:50am
Location: Neive, Italy and Burgundy, France

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #48  Postby Bill Klapp (deactivated) » January 21st 2014, 5:38pm

Maybe it seems less idiotic when translated into Chinese!
Oliver McCrum
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: August 5th 2010, 11:11am
Location: Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #49  Postby Oliver McCrum » January 21st 2014, 6:02pm

Bill Klapp wrote: But that said, let me go on record as saying that Jon Bonne and Alice Feiring are equally crappy writers, save the absence of ellipses. It seems like nobody can write worth a damn on the radical fringe...


Totally disagree with this, Jon Bonne is a very good writer, and not on the fringe. I would love to see him reach a wider audience than the Chronicle.
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum Wines
User avatar
D@v!d P@rt@!n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 989
Joined: March 6th 2009, 4:01am
Location: Over by the Dental Floss Bush

Did anyone read Parker's latest screed?

Post #50  Postby D@v!d P@rt@!n » January 21st 2014, 7:42pm

john holdredge wrote:f*ck Ohio State.


Muck Fichigan neener
David ITB, local retailer, not commissioned, no web sales, no mailing list, does not ship and not even remotely targeting Berserkers as customers.
"Mmmmm so many delicious points, crunch-crunch-crunch"

Return to Wine Talk

logo
Food Advertising by