Report Back Here: 2011 red and white burgundy with/without Greenie Meanies (GMs)

As the 2011 red and white burgundies are showing up and available for consumption - lets get a list of wines that you’ve found Greenie Meanies (GM). What I’ve tasted thus far from 2011 have been enjoyable and easy drinking. I think there’s an accepted definition for this GM phenomena, "Pyrazine like flavors and/or scents - overtly green and chemical in nature - overt high toned broccoli - also can be described as crushed lady bugs. This should not including stem like flavors/scents that are a part of the wines from producers whom use stems during vinification. Allen Meadows added a nice quote about the taint here (in issue #53 - speaking about 2004 red burgs), “chemical compounds called methoxypyrazines (“MPs”) that are released in the hemolymph (a rough equivalent of blood) of two different species of ladybird (meant ladybug???) beetles”. A study is quoted in this issue which says that any bug taint may take 6-12 months after bottling to show.

I’ll start this thread out with a report on the 2011 PY Colin-Morey Meursault Perrieres from a couple of weekends ago with Charlie Fu. This wine was fabulous and maybe lacking some acidity from memory but pure and true. No GMs.

Please report back here with your thoughts on the 2011 red and white burgundies. I’ll try and get a list together as we go on this 1st post of wines/producers that seem to have problem or not with the Greenie Meanies! CHEERS

P.S. – Some notes: 1) tracking this over time should be helpful, and 2) hopefully the collective wave of “-” or “+” votes will give us some piece of mind as to where many of these wines will end up (ie. like 2004s or not).

List of 2011 Producers and specific wines:

• and - next to each producer/wine. + meaning (YES = Greenie Meanies present) and - (NO = Greenie Meanies NOT present).

For the wines during EP in London (January 2013): - per Dan Bailey

P.Amiot
– MSD: -
– Aux Charmes: -
– Millandes: -
– Ruchotes: -
– Combottes: -
– CdlR: -

l’Arlot
– Suchots: -
– Clos des Forets: -

Armand
– Volnay Fremiets: -

Audoin
–Marsannay Salomon: -
–Marsannay Longeroies: -
–Marsannay Ragonneau: -

Bachelet
– Bourgogne: -
– Cotes de Nuits: -
– Gevrey VV: - - (slight green)
– Corbeaux: -
– Charmes Chambertin: -

Ballorin
– Nuits-St-Georges Les Damodes: +

Bart
– Marsannay Les Finottes: - (slight)

Maison Joseph Beuane
– Clos de Mouches: -
– CM 1er: -

Bertheau (Rot in 2011 per Roberter P.?)
– 1er: - (VA maybe) -
– Charmes: - (VA maybe), -/+ (slightly per Don C.) - (stems)
– Bonnes Mares: -
– Amoureuses: - -(something off though)

Bize
– Guettes: - (stems though per Robert)
– Vergelesses: - (stems though per Robert) - (slightly green)
– Forneaux: - (stems though per Robert)
– Aloxe-Corton Le Suchot: - (stems though)

Henri Boillot
– PM 1er Cru Clos de la Mouchere: - - -
– Volnay 1er Cru Chevret: +
– Volnay 1er Cru Fremiets: -
– Volnay 1er Cru Caillerets: -
– Corton Charlemagne: -
– Meursault Genevrieres: - -

Louis Boillot
– Gevrey village: - (slight green)
– Volnay Brouillards: - (slight green)
– Cote de Nuits village: -
– Volnay Grand Poisots: -
– Volnay Angles: -

Bouchard
– Le Corton: -
– Beaune Greves Vigne l’Enfant Jesus: -
– Clos de Vougeot: -
– Savigny Les Lavieres: -
– Bourgogne Blanc: -
– Chevalier Montrachet: -
– Corton Charlemagne: -
– Meursault Genevrieres: -
– Montrachet: - -

Brun Terres Dorees
–Brouilly: - (some bell pepper scents)

Cathiard (all good per Gangas)
– VR village: - -
– VR Orveaux: -
– Malconsorts: -

Chandon de Briailles – Wines in General: - per Alan
– Bourgogne “Louise”: -
– Aux Fourneaux: -
– Lavières: + (unripe stems?)
– Savigny: - (stems for sure)
– Pernand VergelessesIle de Vergelesses: - (stems for sure)

Champy
– Savigny-Lès-Beaune Aux Fourches: - (slight green)
– Pernand Vergelesses Les Vergelesses: -
– Pernand VergelessesIle de Vergelesses: -
– Beaune 1er Les Champs: -
– Bourgogne Aligote: -
– Pernand Vergelesses Les Belles Filles: -
– Pernand Vergelesses En Caradeux: -
– Beaune Les Reversees: -
– Corton Charlie: -

Chassorney
– Saint Romain Sous Roche: -

Chevillon
– Perrieres: -
– NsG VV: - (greenish stems per A.Chan?)

Chezeaux
– Gevrey village: + (per Kevin)

Bruno Clavelier
– Bourgogne Rouge: -
– Chambolle Les Corbeaux: -
– Chambolle Musigny La Combe d’Orveaux: -
– Chambolle Musigny Les Noirots: -
– Corton Rognets: -
– Nuits-Saint-Georges Aux Cras: -
– Vosne Romanee Aux Brulee: -
– Vosne Romanee Hautes de Beaux Monts: -
– Vosne Romanee Les Beaux Monts: -
– Vosne-Romanee La Combe Brulee: -
– Vosne-Romanee La Montagne: -
– Vosne-Romanee Les Hautes Maizieres: -
– Bourgogne Blanc: -

P Clement
– Savigny Guettes: + (post 227)

Clos de la Chappelle
– Volnay 1er En Carelle: -
– Clos de la Chapelle: -
– Pommard les Chanlins: -

Sebastien Dampt (Chablis)
– GC Bougros: -
– GC Le Clos: -

Vincent Dauvissat
– Le Clos: - + - -
– Forest: - - + per Kevin&Kevin

DRC
– VR 1er Duvault-Blochet: -
– Echezaux: -
– Grands Echezeaux: - (Some floral notes…not GM)
– Corton: -
– RSV: - -
– Richebourg: - -
– La tache: - (Definite stem notes, but not GM) -
– Romanee Conti: - -

Drouhin
– CdNuits aoc: -

Dublere – Wines in General: - per Howard
– MSD Blanchards: - -
– Beaune 1. cru Blanches Fleur: -
– Nuits-Saint-Georges Busselots: -
– Savigny-Les-Beaune 1er cru: -
– Savigny-Les-Beaune: -
– Volnay Les Pitures: -
– Volnay Taillipeids: -
– Chablis Preuses: -
– Chassagne Montrachet Chaumes: - -
– Chassagne Montrachet Chenevotte: -
– Les Millerandes: -
– Meursault Les Crotots: -
– Nuits St. Georges Blanc: -
– Savigny Les Vergeless Blanc: -
– Chablis Preuses: -
– Corton Charlemagne: -

Dupont-Tisserandot
– Gevrey Chambertin VV: -
– Charmes Chambertin: -
– Corton Rognets: -
– Lavaux St. Jacques: -
– Cazetieres: -
– Petite Chapelle: -
– GC VV: -
– Mazis: -

Dujac
– Gevrey Chambertin village: -
– Morey St. Denis village (Domaine): - - + - + - (stems)
– Combottes: - - - - + (per Kevin)
– Malconsorts: -
– Clos St. Denis: -
–Clos de la Roche: - - - -
– Bonnes Mares: - (some floral notes)

F.Esmonin
– Estournelles: -
– Lavaux St Jacques: -
– Clos Prieur: - (slight green per A.Chan)

Faiveley – Wines in General: - per Alan
– Mazis: -
– Clos des Cortons: - -

Felettig
– Nuits St. George: -

Nathalie et. Gilles Fevre
– Vaulorent: -
– Mont de Milieu: -
– Les Preuses: -

W.Fevre – Wines in General: - per Alan
– Chablis village: - -
– Preuses: -
– Bougros cote Bougerots: -

Fichet
– Meursault Tesson: -

Forey
– Bourgogne Rouge: - (greenish stems?)
– Gaudichots: - -
– Petits Monts: -
– Clos Vougeot: -
– Echezeaux: -
– Nuits St. Georges village: -
– NSG Perrieres: -
– NSG Les St. Georges: -
– Vosne Romanee village: -

Fourrier
– Clos Salon: - - -
– Aux Echezeaux: -
– GC VV: - - - - - (slight green per Corey Miller)
– Gruenchers: -
– Cherbaudes: - - -
– Goulots: -
– Champeaux: -
– Combes aux Moines: - -
– Clos St. Jacques: -
– Griottes: -

Alex Gambal
– Chorey-les-Beaune: -
– Vosne VV: -

JJ Girard
– Pernand Vergelesses 1er Cru Il des Vergelesses: +
– Pernand Vergelesses 1er Cru Les Fichots: -
– Aloxe Corton: + (per S. Perdue)

J Girardin
– Borgogne VV: -

Giroud (- in general per M.Mathes)
– GC Les Crais: -
– Savigny Les Peuillets: -

H. Gouges
– NsG village: -

Jean Grivot (all good per Gangas)
– Clos de Vougeot: -
– Echezeaux: -
– Les Beaux Monts: -

Groffier (all good per Gangas)

Anne Gros (all good per Gangas)
– Bourgogne Rouge: -
– Chambolle Musigny: -
– Clos de Vougeot: -
– Echezeaux: -
– Hautes Cotes de Nuits: -
– Richebourg: -
– Vosne Romanee: -
– Bourgogne Blanc: -
– Hautes Cotes de Nuits Blanc: -

Gros Frere et Soeur
– Grands Echezeaux: -
– Richebourg: -

Guillemot
– Savigny les Beaune Les Narbantons: + (unripe phenolics?)
– Savigny Grands Picotins: -

Hudelot-Baillet
– Chambolle Les Cras: -

Hudelot-Noellat (GCs x3 negative per M.Mathes)
–Bourgogne: -
–Beaumonts: - -
–CM Charmes: -
–CM village: - - -
–VR village: -
–Murgers: - - (stems though)
–Suchots: -

Ilan – Wines in General: + or - per Howard and his travel group, - per Alan, - per Tim Thomas

Jadot
– Beaune 1er Bressandes: -

Antoine Jobard
– Bourgogne Blanc: -
– Bourgogne Aligote: -
– Meursault Charmes: -

Remi Jobard
– Meursault Narvaux: -

H. Jouan
– MSD VV: + - -

Lafarge
– Volnay VS: - -
– Clos des Chenes: -

Laleure-Piot
– P-V Creux de la Net: -
– Chorey les Beaune: -

H.Lamy
– Wines in General: - per Don C.
–Chataigners: -
–Princee: -
–Tremblots: -
–Chateniere: -
–Remilly: -
–Macherelles: -
–Meix: -

Lafon – Wines in General: - per Howard

D.Leflavie
– Puligny Pucelles: -

Liger-Belair
– Vosne Romanee village: -
– Clos du Chateau: - - - - -
– Colombiere: - - -
– Lavieres: -
– Cras: -
– Brulees: -
– Petit Monts: -
– Reignots: -
– Chaumes: -
– Suchots: - -
– Echezeaux: - -
– La Romanee: - -

Clos de Lambrays
– Clos de Lambrays: -
– PM Caillierets: -

B. Leroux
– Bourgogne Blanc: -

Stephane Magnien
– MSD Les Faconnières: -

M. Mallard
– Corvee: -
– Aloxe Corton Toppe au Vert: -
– Corton Marechaudes: -
– Corton Rognet: -
– Corton Renards: -
– Ladoix Grechons blanc: -
– Corton Charlemagne: -

Maratray-Dubreuil
– P-V Iles des Vergelesses: -

Marchand
– Gevrey Fonteny: + -

Maroslavac-Leger
– PM Corvess des Vignes: -

Meo-Camuzet (all good per Gangas)
– Echezeaux: -
– Brulees: -

C. Moreau
– Vaillons: -
– Valmur: - -
– Vaudesir: -
– Clos: - -
– Clos des Hospice: -

Pierre Morey
– Bourgogne Blanc: -

Morey-Coffinet
–Bourgogne rouge: -

Mortet
– GC VV: - -
– Champeaux: -

Mugneret-Gibourg
– Bourgogne: - -
– VR village: - + + (slightly) - - + - (bit of bitterness) -
– Chaignots: - - - - - - -
– Feusselots: -/+ (slightly per Don C.) - (some floral notes) - -
– GC 1er: -
– Ruchottes: -
– Clos Vougeot: -
– Echezeaux: -

Mugnier (all good per Gangas)
– Chambolle Musigny: -
– CM Fuees: -
– NSG CdMarechale Rouge: - - -
– Bonnes Mares: -
– Amoureuses: -
– Musigny: -
– NSG CdMarechale Blanc: -

Philippe Pacalet
– Bourgogne Rouge Vieilles Vignes: -
– CM village: -
– Charmes Chambertin: -
– Chambolle Musigny 1er: - -
– Echezeaux: - -
– Gevrey Chambertin Bel Air: - -
– Gevrey Chambertin village: -
– Lavaux St. Jacques: -
– Nuits-Saint-Georges: - -
– Nuits-Saint-Georges 1er: -
– Pommard 1er: -
– Bourgogne rouge: -
– Pommard Les Arvelets: -
– Ruchottes Chambertin: - -
– VR Chaumes: -
– Nuits St. Georges blanc: -
– Beaune Perrieres: -
– GC Les Perrieres: -
– Puligny village: - -
– Chassagne Montrachet village: -
– St. Aubin Les Murgers des Dents: -
– PM Champs Gain: -
– Corton Charlemagne: - -
– Meursault village: -
– Meursault Perrieres: -

D.Pavelot
– Daminode: -
– Savigny Les Beaune 1er Cru Aux Gravains: -
– Savigny Les Beaune 1er Cru Les Lavieres: -

P.Pernot – Wines in General: - per Don C. (whites only)
– Clos du Deuses des Marconnets: + (per Anthony Y.)
– PM Folatieres: -

Perrot-Minot (entire line-up “-” per C.Delpin)

PYCM – Wines in General: - per Don C.
– Bourgogne Blanc: + (slight per PaulJ)
– Saint Aubin Le Banc: - -
– Saint Aubin Champlots: -
– Meursault Perrieres: - - -
– Meursault Genevrieres: - -
– Meursault Charmes: -
– PM Caillerets: -
– PM Champs Gain: -
– PM Folatieres: -
– CM Chevenottes: -
– CM Caillerets: -
– CM Ancegnieres: -
– Corton Charlemage: -
– Santenay VV Ceps Centenaires: -

Poisot
– Corton Bressandes: -
– Romanee-Saint-Vivant: -
– Corton Charlemage: -

Ponsot
–MSD 1er: -

Pousse d’Or (all good per Gangas)
– Bousse d’Or: -
– Bonnes Mares: -
– CdlR: -

Raveneau
– Le Clos: -
– Butteaux: - (maybe slight)

Rossignol – Wines in General: - per Alan
– Aloxe Corton: -
– Volnay: -
– Pommard 1er Chaponiere: -
–Santenots: -
–Caillerets: - -
–Chanlins: -
–Chevret: - -
–Clos des Mouches: - (stems per Robert)
–Clos du Roy: -
–Heritiere: - -
–Bourgogne: - - -
–Ronceries: - - -
–Fremiers: -

Roulot – Wines in General: - per Alan
– Bourgogne Blanc: -

Ramonet
– C-M aoc: -
– P-M aoc: -

Roche de Bellene
– Bourgogne VV rouge: -

Rousseau:
– Chambertin: -
– Chambertin Clos de Beze: -
– Charmes Chambertin: -
– Clos de la Roche: -
– Clos Saint Jacques: -
– Gevrey Chambertin: -
– Laveaux Saint Jacques: -
– Mazis Chambertin: -
– Ruchotte Chambertin: -

M. Roy
– GC Clos Prieur: - - -

Sauzet – Wines in General: - per Don C.

Serafin
–GC village: -
–GC VV: -

R Sirugue
– Chambolle Les Mombies: -
– Grands Echezeaux: -
– Vosne Les Petits Monts: -
–Vosne Romanee: -
– Vosne Romanee VV: -

Trapet
– Latricieres: - (slightly green)

Tremblay
– Cabottes: - -

Vogue
– Chambolle Musigny: - - -
– Chambolle Musigny 1er: - - -
– Amoureuses: - -
– Bonnes Mares: - - -
– Musigny: - - -
– Bourgogne Blanc: -


LIST THROUGH POST #338 – Domaines now in semi-alphabetical order -

Jon,
Thank you for starting this master thread. This should make for meaningful discussion as well as a one stop location for possible tainted '11 wine.

Had a dauvissat forest on release. Wasn’t showing much of anything. Def no gm. Will open a clos on Friday.

Something off. Not ready to call it GM yet but consistently disturbing smell in both:

2011 Bertheau Chambolle 1er
2011 Bertheau Chambolle Charmes

No green:

2011 PYCM Perrieres
2011 PYCM Genevrieres- a hint of bitterness which I thought was oak. No off smell.
2011 PYCM Corton Charlemagne- delicious, nothing off.

F. Esmonin Gevrey-Chambertin Estournelles St. Jacques 1er. Excellent. No GMs, and I was looking for it. I’m sensitive to the GMs in the 2004 vintage.

good begin,but at the end you make a poll?
3 people say wine xxx from producer zzz have GM ,4 people say no GM.
2004 is the same,you can find for all GM notes,notes with no GM.
who right?
and i think many people say at the end this wine have GM ,but is only normally green…
you can find many notes with all specific flavors from pre-mox,but many people know that not.(oh nice nuts and honey…)
but good to begin.
PS;funny is, in german tasting note you find hardly any GM or prem-ox comments.

2011 Vosne Romanee Mugneret-Gibourg no GM.

I found no green in Lafon and Dublere whites. I did not find any in Maison Ilan’s reds, but one of my travel companions did (4 including me did not).

On our recent visit to Burgundy we drank or tasted:
2011 Dauvissat Les Clos - beautiful
2011 Roulot lineup - beautiful
2011 Nicolas Rossignol lineup - very nice, no GM that I could detect
2011 Maison Ilan - beautiful, no GM
2011 Chandon de Briailles, several wines - very nice, no GM in either white or reds
2011 Faiveley - few of the lesser wines, no GM I could detect in either whites or reds

roman. the difference is, with 04 the majority tasted green with some outliers not tasting it. Most of us have no clue with 2011’s yet, so we’re just trying them.

It will be interesting to watch this. Remember the 04’s came out with some time. I have long ago quit on white burgs, but were the GM’s as much an issue with whites as reds?

The 11 Dauvissat Les Clos has strong note of GM. If you don’t find GM here, you will find the 11s quite enjoyable.

Wow, I’ve had this or tasted bottles a couple of times, and don’t remember any greenies. Same with 2011 Fevre Clos. Either I’m just not sensitive (possible), am more forgiving (don’t think so), or there is a difference of opinion on what we are perceiving.

Alan,
This is the excruciating painful part of GM discussion. I certainly respect your opinion. I feel very certain that GM note is pretty strong in the 11 Dauvissat les clos. My apologies if I offended you in anyway.

Kevin, of course I’m not offended! Just scratching my head wondering if my sensitivity is that low, if I’m somehow more tolerant, or I’m interpreting what I smell/taste differently than others. What I have noticed in some 2011 whites is a more raw/edgy character, which I ascribe somehow to the nature of the acidity. I don’t know how to explain it, just that it’s like a rawness, or an unfinished-ness of some kind where the wines, though otherwise good with excellent flavors, are not harmonious. This has been in maybe half the 2011 whites I have sampled so far. But in none of those cases did I detect anything green, as in the 2004s, or as in what I would expect from high whole cluster percentages in reds.
Cheers!

2011 Dujac Morey-St.-Denis: Crunchy, cool red fruit, fresh herbs, lively minerality. Delicious middleweight, with no trace of GM. I consider myself pretty sensitive to GM. I can’t stand most 2004 reds, many of which I find prematurely brown as well as chemically tainted. The herbal note in this bottle was absolutely not the same as 2004-style chemical taint. This bottle reminded me more of 2007 than 2004.

-Steve

This is so crazy.

Someone tasted the wine on the 9th and wrote on CT and I quote “Light colour. Engaging, complex nose. But the palate is a disaster. I really can’t stand the 2011 red burgs. My girlfriend hit this one on the head: “tastes like paint”. I was served this by a representative of the domaine, so it can’t be an off bottle… I blame the year. Almost undrinkable.”

My take is similar “Bright red fruits then immediately GM and smoke.”

paint = GM? I’ve gotten chemical tastes from 04’s but it never tasted like paint. Regardless, I’m gonna try some dujac this week to from 2011. I was super sensitive to their 04s, so if it’s similar I think it’d jump out immediately to me.

This weekend or thanksgiving we will open some out here. Liger Belair, maybe Dujac, PYCM - will see what else I can rustle up.

I tasted Dujac’s 2004 Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis shortly after release, and found them much less pleasant than this 2011.

Perhaps the “fresh herbs” that I tasted are “green meanies” to others? To my palate, the issue with so many 2004s is a signature chemical contamination, which is different from underripe fruit or herbal flavors.

I won’t be buying 2011s en masse… but this one data point will embolden me to keep tasting and buying selectively…

-Steve

Charlie,
I think this is another issue. GM although discussed quite often, the definition seems to vary significantly. The person who wrote the TN seems to be in Europe and not sure how aware he is of GM. BTW, TCA is not necessarily that bothersome for many regular wine drinkers.