New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

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New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #1  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 14th 2012, 10:55am

Rarely have enough time to post about such things, but thought a quick PSA and missive regarding this kickass new project with Thomas Brown as head winemaking guru is worthy of your attention.

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Here in St. Helena and elsewhere in the Valley, a well-known spot for hiking, fishing and kayaking (not swimming, it's the local water supply) is at Lake Hennessey, a small offshoot of Lake Berryessa. It's suprisingly close - turn on Old Howell Mountain Road (where Meadowood is) and keep going straight on Conn Valley Road. Not too far past Seavey, you come across a tiny road to your left, and in front of you is Lake Hennessey. The locals park here and start walking.

Up the road however, perched on a fairly steep hillside over looking the lake, is the tiny Three Twins Vineyard. This is the spot where the fruit for Stone the Crows originates from, and is made up at Outpost by Thomas. It's a typical Cabernet-heavy Bordeaux blend in the vineyard, I believe.

This wine is fantastic. Thomas makes a lot of different styles - this is more in the Schrader/Maybach realm of things, to my palate. Gorgeous, long, silky, ripe but not over the top, with dense rich flavors that always make me think of drinking dark colors. Drinking deep red. Anyway, it is definitely something that should be on your radar for those that drink collect and love these styles of wines.

Price is something everyone always asks about - I dont know, but I have the feeling its not going to be stratospheric. Production is tiny, and they do have a mailing list- I know I'm on it! Not sure when first release is, but if its drinking like this sample I tried, they can pull the trigger when ready!!

http://www.stonethecrowswine.com/


Stefan

Disclaimer: I'm ITB and may or may not ever have this wine to sell. But I hope so. :-)
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #2  Postby Justin Wittkopf » May 14th 2012, 11:29am

Thanks for the heads up.

At this moment, 56 views of this thread. I wonder how many of them went directly to the website to sign up?

Yes, I did too. [cheers.gif]
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #3  Postby T Welch » May 14th 2012, 11:32am

Thanks Stefan. It's interesting that this wine comes from Three Twins Vineyard and Sine Qua Non has The Third Twin Vineyard. Potential for confusion?
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #4  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 14th 2012, 11:48am

My pleasure. I have at least 2-3 more I want to write on, just never enough time...

On the vineyard name - Hm, I suppose, but hopefully not...the legal stuff is a headache for sure.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #5  Postby Kevin Lloyd » May 14th 2012, 12:02pm

Thanks for the note Stefan, I signed up as well
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #6  Postby Bill Johnstone » May 14th 2012, 12:13pm

Myriad released a Three Twins Vineyard Cabernet starting with the 2009 vintage, I seem to recall that Mike Smith thinks this vineyard has rock-star potential. Mike and TRB have a lot of overlap in fruit. It will be interesting to compare the two winemakers side by side TRB is one of the current high profile names and I think Mike has great potential, but a very short track record.

"2009 Myriad Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Three Twins Vineyard
The Three Twins Vineyard is the first time that Myriad Cellars has worked with a vineyard from planting to bottle. Our 2009 version is the first commercial crop off these perfectly situated Conn Valley vines. Located just above the shores of Lake Hennessey, these young vines came out with their ‘A Game’ producing a wine with a tantalizing fruit spectrum. Dark ruby with a violet tinge, scents of black cherry pie, flint stone, Kona coffee and tobacco emanate from the glass. A medium bodied mid palate preludes a rush of fine grained tannins lifting the overall back bone of the wine into a finish gushing with blue fruits, Asian spices, cola notes and barrel tannin.

A one hour decant will put this wine into a nice place upon release, it will further fill out it’s frame for 2-4 yrs and drink well up to 10 yrs.
"
Last edited by Bill Johnstone on May 14th 2012, 12:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #7  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 14th 2012, 12:24pm

I was hoping Mike might chime in as well on that. I am fairly certain it is the same. Great minds think alike when it comes to vineyards I suppose~!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #8  Postby Todd F r e n c h » May 14th 2012, 12:42pm

Wow...how many wines is TRB making now??

Does he have ''ghost makers" like famous writers have ghost writers?
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #9  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 14th 2012, 12:48pm

He has a lot, but he's got one thing I think that makes it do-able- they are all made in one place (Outpost), which is unusual and I would think adds a lot more control to the winemaking and direction-giving to his assistants and whatnot. Much harder if you're runing around to 3 or 5 or 8 differnet properties all the time!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #10  Postby Clayton Wai-Poi » May 14th 2012, 1:13pm

Technically they're made two places - Outpost (Cabs and Chardonnay) and Black Sears (Pinot Noir). They are a stones throw away from each other though.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #11  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 14th 2012, 2:15pm

Quite right. Forgot that. I got married at Black Sears!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #12  Postby Roy Piper » May 14th 2012, 8:03pm

The vineyard is located in a tiny little part of Conn Valley which, in my opinion, is AVA-worthy. I call it "Greenfield Ridge," named after the road most of the vineyards sit off of. Within about a square half-mile, there is Three Twins, the estate vineyard for Parallel, Fairchild's "Sigaro," Bonds "Melbury," a vineyard that goes to Caymus Special Select, the home vineyard of Lewis, and Seavey. All of them are right across or above each other and they all can see Lake Hennessey from some point on their properties. The lake view is the key, as the breeze comes off it in the afternoon and cools the vineyards in question, allowing them to come off at reasonable alcohol levels and with very masculine flavors. The soils are well-drained rock. Most of the rest of Conn valley gets awfully hot.

This is a pic from "Sigaro" looking below to "Seavey." Lake Hennessey is to the left of this image but blocked by a tree from where I stood when I took the pic. A very pretty area.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #13  Postby Merrill Lindquist » May 14th 2012, 8:21pm

Stefan Blicker wrote:I was hoping Mike might chime in as well on that. I am fairly certain it is the same. Great minds think alike when it comes to vineyards I suppose~!
I have never seen Mike post here.
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New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #14  Postby Todd F r e n c h » May 14th 2012, 8:44pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
Stefan Blicker wrote:I was hoping Mike might chime in as well on that. I am fairly certain it is the same. Great minds think alike when it comes to vineyards I suppose~!
I have never seen Mike post here.

Mike Officer? If so, he's posted here, just not in a while
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #15  Postby T Welch » May 14th 2012, 8:48pm

Mike Smith, Todd.
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Post #16  Postby ekovitch » May 15th 2012, 4:15am

Is it too gauche to talk price? If this is another $125 Napa Cab, it'll be tough to get excited about it.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #17  Postby Bill Johnstone » May 15th 2012, 6:14am

ekovitch wrote:Is it too gauche to talk price? If this is another $125 Napa Cab, it'll be tough to get excited about it.


That would be a hard sell with the Myriad @ $50 of course Mike said this was for the inaugural release and price would go up in the future.
It seems the wines TRB owned releases are at good price points I assume this is done by eliminating the 3 tier system and selling direct to consumer thru mailing lists exclusively. If you want your wine marketed by retailers the price almost doubles but you can potentually move a lot more wine.
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Post #18  Postby Mike DiSalvo » May 15th 2012, 6:51am

Roy, great photo, thanks for posting it.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #19  Postby Brent C l a y t o n » May 15th 2012, 7:14am

Bill Johnstone wrote: If you want your wine marketed by retailers the price almost doubles but you can potentially move a lot more wine.


Where did you get this idea?
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Post #20  Postby Bill Johnstone » May 15th 2012, 7:27am

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
Bill Johnstone wrote: If you want your wine marketed by retailers the price almost doubles but you can potentially move a lot more wine.


Where did you get this idea?


General feeling and looking at pricing of wines.
In general if a producer sells to wholesaler for $50, he sells to retailer for $75 who sells to consumer for $100. In my opinion these are reasonable margins for wholesaler and retailer to make. Especially when the majority of wines they sell are a a much lower price point. If a winery sells exclusively through direct sales you eliminate 2 middlemen but also a lot of marketing and exposure.

Brent I build houses for a living, I have never been in retail(except as a restaurant manager/captain/waiter) are these percentages wrong?
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #21  Postby Mike Heyse » May 15th 2012, 7:30am

Interesting that the '09 is totally sold out, but they link to Cellartracker from their own website, and yet only one review posted (and I think it was the only bottle inventoried). None available on Wine Searcher. Based on the drinking window for the '09 (2 hour decant if consumed in the next 2-4 years, but should hold up for about 10 years), I'm guessing this will be about $40-60. Might be a tough sell, though, given the presumed overall weakness of the 2010 Cali vintage. I'd love to hear more about the '09.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #22  Postby Brent C l a y t o n » May 15th 2012, 7:55am

Bill,
Your post implied a cause/effect relationship with the wine going into the retail chain and the retail price doubling. I don't see it that way at all. Generally the winery sets the 'suggested retail' for their wine and works backward from there as all markets can vary. By selling direct and 'cutting out the middlemen,' the winery is generally taking the greater profit for themselves.

Your 3 tier pricing model is a fine representation for the sake of argument, but that's not an example of the price 'doubling' for consumers.

Also, if you talk to most of the smart shoppers around here, I think they'll tell you that any time a wine is available at retail it can almost in every case be found somewhere for less than what it's sold for at the winery.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #23  Postby Bill Johnstone » May 15th 2012, 8:33am

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:Bill,
Your post implied a cause/effect relationship

I think there is a cause/effect, but it is at the beginning when a wine maker sets his "suggested retail". A winemaker has hard costs and overhead that must be covered If selling through wholesalers/retailers, retail is set at price that allows all three to stay in business plus what the winery thinks the market will bear (assuming the wine sells of course). If selling direct like a David Coffaro then only what they think is reasonable profit needs to be considered. http://www.coffaro.com/forumposts/ID21_010699letter.html

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:Also, if you talk to most of the smart shoppers around here, I think they'll tell you that any time a wine is available at retail it can almost in every case be found somewhere for less than what it's sold for at the winery.

Yes because wholesalers/retailers can discount to move wine, a winery generally cannot without pissing off their distribution channels.

I am not trying to complain about retailers profits, or blame any downstream parties for wine pricing. The winery chooses there distribution method and set the "retail" pricing accordingly.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #24  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 15th 2012, 8:34am

Roy, your photos are tremendous. You should do an appellation photo book!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #25  Postby Bill Johnstone » May 15th 2012, 8:45am

Stefan Blicker wrote:Roy, your photos are tremendous. You should do an appellation photo book!



Sorry for the unintended hijack. It is a beautiful area with some outstanding vineyards.
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Post #26  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 15th 2012, 8:59am

No worries Bill. Brent is right BTW, generally retailers will be offering at the winery price for a tiny production, mostly mailing list type situation (if at all) as I think this will be. Or more, of course, if the market makes it so, e.g. SQN, etc.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #27  Postby john holdredge » May 15th 2012, 2:38pm

I got on the list. WTF- it's a great name. And TRB doesn't make plonk. And Blicker has a decent palate 9although he hoards the really cool stuff instead of selling it). And Piper takes good photos. No brainer.
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Post #28  Postby Merrill Lindquist » May 15th 2012, 9:40pm

Truett W e l c h wrote:Mike Smith, Todd.
Thanks, Truett. Of course I meant Mike Smith. That's who we were talking about.
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Post #29  Postby Ron F r e e d » May 15th 2012, 11:43pm

Mike Heyse wrote:Interesting that the '09 is totally sold out, but they link to Cellartracker from their own website, and yet only one review posted (and I think it was the only bottle inventoried). None available on Wine Searcher. Based on the drinking window for the '09 (2 hour decant if consumed in the next 2-4 years, but should hold up for about 10 years), I'm guessing this will be about $40-60. Might be a tough sell, though, given the presumed overall weakness of the 2010 Cali vintage. I'd love to hear more about the '09.


My thoughts exactly...not just only one review, only one bottle listed in stock. The entire vintage is sold out and only one bottle is listed on CT? That's a bit of a stretch for my imagination. I would have expected at least a few buyers would be using CT.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #30  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 16th 2012, 7:57am

The wine has not been released, so it's not sold out. It's upcoming.
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Post #31  Postby Bud Carey » May 16th 2012, 8:01am

Stefan... according to their website, the 2009 is sold out.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #32  Postby Stefan Blicker » May 16th 2012, 8:08am

Hm. Well, I don't know. I just drank it and liked it!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #33  Postby BobH » May 16th 2012, 8:28am

Ron F r e e d wrote:
Mike Heyse wrote:Interesting that the '09 is totally sold out, but they link to Cellartracker from their own website, and yet only one review posted (and I think it was the only bottle inventoried). None available on Wine Searcher. Based on the drinking window for the '09 (2 hour decant if consumed in the next 2-4 years, but should hold up for about 10 years), I'm guessing this will be about $40-60. Might be a tough sell, though, given the presumed overall weakness of the 2010 Cali vintage. I'd love to hear more about the '09.


My thoughts exactly...not just only one review, only one bottle listed in stock. The entire vintage is sold out and only one bottle is listed on CT? That's a bit of a stretch for my imagination. I would have expected at least a few buyers would be using CT.


A bit of a stretch? A wine that is not yet available for sale is already 'sold out' and not available anywhere or listed on CT? But yet they'll sell you the lesser 2010 vintage when that becomes available? To me, that is one heck of a stretch.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #34  Postby Russ Williams » May 16th 2012, 9:38am

The only explanation I can come up with is that '09 produced a VERY small crop.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #35  Postby BobH » May 16th 2012, 10:26am

Russ Williams wrote:The only explanation I can come up with is that '09 produced a VERY small crop.


That must be it, because I certainly can't think of any other explanation. [snort.gif]
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #36  Postby Corey N. » May 16th 2012, 10:29am

Not to go too far OT, but this comes from the STC website:

It will fill out over the next two to four years and drink well for up to ten years.


10 years? That's it? Shouldn't it last significantly longer?
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Post #37  Postby mike pobega » May 16th 2012, 12:28pm

Interesting to see it said.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #38  Postby mike pobega » May 16th 2012, 12:47pm

Just got this.
Our Apologies for any confusion caused by the phrase "sold out" with respect to the 2009 vintage of Stone The Crows. Only thirty-five cases were produced and they were made available to friends and to the wine industry on a complimentary basis. Any remaining bottles are in our wine library. We are considering the possibility of making a very limited number of bottles of the 2009 available to purchasers of the 2010 vintage.


Very truly yours,


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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #39  Postby john holdredge » May 16th 2012, 12:59pm

Being a winery owner and winemaker, I just asked them to send my "complimentary basis" bottle to me. I think I deserve it.
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Post #40  Postby Bill Tex Landreth » May 16th 2012, 1:00pm

john holdredge wrote:Being a winery owner and winemaker, I just asked them to send my "complimentary basis" bottle to me. I think I deserve it.



That...or a swift kick in the nvtz.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #41  Postby john holdredge » May 16th 2012, 2:00pm

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
john holdredge wrote:Being a winery owner and winemaker, I just asked them to send my "complimentary basis" bottle to me. I think I deserve it.



That...or a swift kick in the nvtz.



gotta have 'em to get kicked in 'em, "Porkchop"....
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #42  Postby Eric FW » February 5th 2013, 12:16pm

Just got an e-mail to expect the offer to open up Feb 12. Anyone have an idea about pricing now?
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #43  Postby Mike DiSalvo » February 5th 2013, 12:24pm

I also rec'd the email, the review from Wine Advocate had estimated cost of $85 but I didn't see anything else on the site regarding cost.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #44  Postby Ian P. » February 5th 2013, 12:31pm

Looks like Myriad only gets a small % of the grapes. The Myriad '10 is only 94 cases and this is 230 cases for '10. I would like to participate in a blind tasting of the 2, the Myriad is excellent. THEY SCREWED UP BY NOT PARTICIPATING IN BERSERKER DAY!!
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #45  Postby Ashley G » February 5th 2013, 12:55pm

85/bottle and 195/magnum per the website for 2010 vintage.

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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #46  Postby Mikhail M » February 5th 2013, 1:24pm

Ashley G wrote:85/bottle and 195/magnum per the website for 2010 vintage.


I don't see this anywhere on the website - where did you find this, Ashley?
One would hope that $85 is a high estimate and the pricing would be more in line with Myriad ($60), unless that was a "market gauging" exercise... [wow.gif]
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #47  Postby Bill Tex Landreth » February 5th 2013, 1:25pm

Mikhail M wrote:
Ashley G wrote:85/bottle and 195/magnum per the website for 2010 vintage.


I don't see this anywhere on the website - where did you find this, Ashley?
One would hope that $85 is a high estimate and the pricing would be more in line with Myriad ($60), unless that was a "market gauging" exercise... [wow.gif]

Unfortunately, at this juncture, TRB's name commands a higher premium than Mike's.
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #48  Postby Z. A c s a n » February 5th 2013, 1:26pm

My allocation of 2010 wines are available to order on the web site. That allocation is: (1) single bottle @$85, (2) 3-pack @$255 or (1) magnum @$195.

A little less jazzed about taking a flyer on the 2010 vintage rather than 2009 Stefan mentioned at the top.
Either way, it sounds like Z e e
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #49  Postby Ashley G » February 5th 2013, 1:27pm

$85 is what i paid based on my allocation. I'm excited to try this down the road...

Ashley
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CWun
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Re: New TRB Cab - killer- STONE THE CROWS

Post #50  Postby CWun » February 5th 2013, 1:42pm

A quick read of the notes on their website makes me believe this will be a "bigger" and riper style cabernet.
I've yet to try his Rivers Marie Cabs. What are they like?
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