I love Riesling. I am a big fan of dry Rieslings of Donnhoff, Hirsch, Leitz, Keller, Kreydenweiss, Schloss Gobelsburg, Weinbach, Nigl and Prager, to name a few. I have never had a Clos St Hune. I have greatly enjoyed a few Cuvee Frederich Emilie Rieslings with about 10 years of age, but at the current prices, I am not sure I think they’re worth it based on my limited experience. I rarely spend what Clos St Hune costs, and I am aware of its reputation, so I am wondering what people think of it based on their experiences. Do you think it’s worth the investment of money and time, and do you think I might, given that I rarely (but sometimes) spend that much on a bottle of wine? Is it really that much better than so many great German, Austrian, and Alsatian examples that cost far less? How much time do you think it generally needs to show its potential? I know this is a very broad and general question, so any discussion would be appreciated.
Is any wine that has reached the very top of its genre by general consensus, and is priced accordingly, worth its high price? How you answer that question gives the answer to whether Clos Ste. Hune is worth it. Because it has earned its #1 ranking, and to me it is the best of its type. To experience the very best of something, of anything really, is worth paying more to attain. So I think Clos Ste. Hune is worth its price, not as an everyday wine, of course.
On the other side of that rationale, it is very reasonable to conclude that paying up for the very best is too costly because a well-informed buyer can get 98% or 99% of the quality for 50% of the price. This is where I reside. I am a Burgundy fiend, but do not purchase DRC wines. I’ve had them, I appreciate them, and I no longer feel compelled to pay the premium. So I don’t buy DRC, and I no longer buy Clos Ste. Hune regularly either, but I have bought and cellared and experienced both. Just my 2 cents.
To me, no. Cuvee Freddy is so close to it. Some will say they love the “terroir” or expression of CSH, but it is not “worth” it to me. That said, you are curious, so grab a bottle! I think Posner just offered some at 120 per, for a nice vintage. I think Lew sums it up pretty well.
I will say that you should do everything in your power to hunt down a Gmax. We opened one at La Paulee - simply incredible juice.
Doug,
To add on to Lewis’ post, I do think it’s worth experiencing the finest of things if you can at least once or twice. I’ve had Clos St. Hune a few times and it’s stunning stuff. Worth the money? Well that’s an individual thing. But then I didn’t pay for the entire bottle. You see, I’ve had it at tastings. If you have other wine geeks around, do a tasting. Put the CSH with a few other wines for context, everyone chips in some money and… try it. Get some thing from a good vintage with some age - the first CSH I had was a pristine bottle from '73, but the precise vintage doesn’t matter… just get a good vintage that has been stored well.
Eh, I dunno about that. General consensus among those who don’t care to do much exploring in Austria, I suppose…
I’ve only had CSH on a few occasions - once (can’t seem to recall the vintage) was perfection, the other occasions a very fine wine.
If you want to see the ultimate expression of dry Rizza, then yes.
Be careful of the vintage you choose because a lot in the extremely late 90’s through very early '00s are experiencing premox. Don’t believe me? Try a 2001 and see. That is not an unresolved wine or one that can have excuses made for it. It is pure and simple oxidation (From a sample of at least 10 btls at this point from multiple sources).
Clos Ste Hune really needs age to show it’s true worth. At 10-15 years, Frederic Emile can be as flattering, but with 20-30+ years it becomes sublime.
We just had the 1997 Clos Ste Hune paired with a much younger regular Trimbach Riesling, just to see how the really big boy compared with the potential QPR. Unfortunately, no comparison (I guess who would thought there would be). The CSH was ethereal, oh so light on its feet, but with deceptive power on the palate. Real elegance… I have not tried the Frederich Emile recently, but whatever the comparison between it and the CSH is, the Freddy is a hell of deal–really only a bit more expensive than the entry Trimbach Riesling.
Hune is certainly fine stuff, but I’d have a hard time calling it ‘better’ than any of the top Austrian or German dry Rieslings. Hirtzberger Singerriedel, Prager Achleiten, FX Kellerberg and Donnhoff Hermannshohle to name a few are every bit as good if not better.
You must not have bought it recently either. It’s usually over $45 and the basic one is more like $15.
So is this you arguing against Terroir? Clos Ste. Hune is pretty much hors classe in Alsace, and deservedly so - as it expresses the best of Alsace. Austrian Riesling, which I love, is a different expression of the grape based on what the vineyards provide. Price may affect the argument, but pretending that Clos St. Hune isn’t among the very best of what Riesling has to offer really is a price argument, and not a quality one.
When Hune was in the $100-$125 range (can still be found sometimes for that) it was worth it for its unique expression of dry Riesling. I’ve never had anything else quite like it (even CFE). Now that the price is generally in the mid-$100 and sometimes close to $200 I don’t see the value.
As for premox…I’ve opened the 1997, 1998 and 2001 in recent times, and there have been zero signs of anything amiss with these wines. Now I have had issues with the 1996s from Trimbach (and some dodgy bottles of 2000 Pinot Gris Hommage a Jeanne), but '96 had such a weird profile that I am not sure what to expect.
“Worth it” is always a matter of how much you have.
But Hune is a unique expression of the grape and place that many find remarkable.
The times I have tasted it, I agree with the many.
Best, Jim
Thanks for all of the input. I have had '07 G MAX and it was otherworldly, as was '07 Abtserde (which I think was on a very similar level and is much more easily obtained for much less money). As for the Clos St Hune, I have been told that it needs about 25 years to really show why it is so special. That is why I am hesitant to buy a young bottle and open it. Posner’s recent offer was what spurred this thread. I was all set to buy 2 bottles, one for soon and one for much later, and then I thought “I don’t know where this wine has been for the past several years. I’m sure it’s fine now, but I don’t want to buy a back vintage to lay down for so long unless I am sure of its provenance.” (Please don’t take that as anything negative about the offer or his wonderful business; it isn’t intended that way and I am sure the wine is in great shape now for consumption.) Then I started wondering if it was worth trying at all at this young age (the offer was for 2002). I probably should have jumped on it, but I was interested to see some people’s opinions. I agree that the best of something is worth a premium, but I also have trouble shelling out over $100 for a dry Riesling when I can get such ridiculously good ones for well under $100 from Germany and Austria. They are, of course, different from Alsace, but if they offer as much or more pleasure, I don’t know how much I care that they are different. Anyway, I will probably try it for curiosity’s sake the next time I see a decent vintage for a good price and I’m not saving for a rather costly trip. Other opinions or further discussion would, of course, interest me greatly.
Some of the best white wines of my life have been Clos Ste Hune with 20+ years. That said, I haven’t bought any with the recent price increases. As others have mentioned, the extremely high quality of dry Austrian riesling as well as my favorite dry German producers makes it a more difficult purchase. And even before that the cost was high enough that it was a very rare purchase.
I had also heard enough reports of premature aging on the 1990 that I opened my one bottle about 2 years ago. It was fantastic though admittedly a tad more advanced than I would have expected.
Frederic Emile is, however, a no brainer.
How am I arguing against terroir just because I don’t find the wine as compelling as any number of Austrian rieslings?
Maybe it’s hors classe in Alsace, maybe not, but being the best riesling in Alsace is still rather like being the best pinot noir from a region other than Burgundy.
Is it a price argument? To a certain extent. I would probably buy some Clos Ste. Hune for my cellar if it were about $60 - i.e., if it were cheaper than Alzinger Steinertal, Pichler Kellerberg, Hirtzberger Singerriedel, etc., as well as some of the better dry options from Germany like Keller. And I’m not buying CSH at the prices it goes for – but if I had to, I would still buy some of those other rieslings at the prices CSH goes for. So it’s not really a price argument to me.
I get the argument that the wine might need 25+ years to show why it’s worthwhile, although the following must be noted:
- If that’s the case, that would make CSH literally unique among rieslings, dry or otherwise. I’m not aware of a single other example that requires that much time, as opposed to just benefitting from it. The overwhelming majority are marvelously impressive on release, even! That seems to me to be a point in their favor – a wine with a 25-year black-hole period seems to me less valuable than one you can drink at nearly any point in your and their lives.
- The number of people who worship at the CSH altar seems to be greater than the number of people who have drank much 25+ year-old CSH, but it still strikes me for the most part that they are people who do not drink much Austrian or German wine. Let’s put it this way, show me one of those mega-cellars with a big trove of Clos Ste. Hune and you’re more likely to also find a big trove of Leflaive or Krug in it than a big trove of Alzinger or Pichler. Oh gosh, there I go again being cynical again but I think I’m right on this one.
I agree that Clos St Hune in its best vintages is among the best white wines in the world and as such is very much worth seeking out to try, but it’s not obvious to me that it’s the best Riesling from anywhere, or even the hands-down best Riesling from Alsace. Of the great Riesling vineyards in Alsace, I’m pretty high on Schlossberg.
The best CSH I’ve had was the '89 VT (the regular, not the Hors Choix); a really excellent wine, without question, but it only cost me $89, a few years after release.
’
Wow. Just wow. You’re kidding right? Perhaps the overall Alsatian style has drifted from its dry past (let’s not get into why), but Hune remains a benchmark wine, and Alsace has been and remains a benchmark region for Riesling. Yes Austria and Germany are right there with Alsace, but to place Alsace and Hune on some lower tier is just mind-boggling.
Sorry to have boggled your mind. I know not everyone will agree, but that’s the way I see it.