Is Chianti "downrated" because it is Chianti?

I think there are a lot of terrific Chiantis out there that deserve more love and higher scores than they usually receive. What do you think? I think many of the best Chiantis are every bit as good as good Brunello. Please discuss.

Byron

To me, CCR is more consistently excellent that BdM, but the best Bs I’ve had have been more profound than the best Cs. That said, there is no comparison, in my mind, in the $30-$60 range - CCR easily wins.

Definitely, and I am quite happy about it. I drink a couple $35-70 bottles of wine per week, but mostly $20 bottles the rest of the week. During the cooler months, that means tons of Priorat and Chianti (especially CCR). Fontodi, Viticcio, Monsato, Frescobaldi, Ruffino, Casalino, among many other Chianti’s dominate the list. I really don’t care if others like it, or what the scores are…it works for me.

Agreed!

Andrew

If you love these wines consider yourself lucky that they are underrated by critics and the wine market. Just as I was really seriously getting into red burgundy the prices took off. It was disconcerting to say the least.

+2.

There is so much mediocre to just dreadful wine being made in Chianti, it really sullies and often outshines the great accomplishments of the area.

I agree though, the highs are incredible, and what you can pay in the $50 to $60/bottle range generally blows away most wines of Montalcino.

The wine press and most folks do not seem to value many CCRs and CCs as much as I (and apparently most of this thread’s commentors do). It certainly is to our benefit. I wonder how long this will last.

It is. And hope it stays that way. Ian, you understandably taste a lot of Chianti’s garbage but hopefully the number of good ones is increasing, along with what seems like the overall improving quality of Italian wines in general.

RT

I am hoping it stays that way as well. There are a lot of really good CC and CCRs in the $30 - $50 range, half bottles for weeknight drinking are highly available and even $20 can get you a good CC if you are patient.

I agree that CCR (at least if you have the wherewithal to discern the better examples) is terrific value in that price range, and on down to the high teens (e.g. Felsina CCR for around $18). Because of its past and because of the low-grade industrial producers that persist in Chianti, that name seems to depress pricing on the better wines. Note that many Super Tuscans like Flaccianello could qualify as Chianti now but prefer to remain IGT Toscana.

But there is a lot of excellent Brunello in the $30-60 range, and even in the lower half of that range, these days. There seems to be a lot of downward pressure on the prices and a lot of discounting. I also ofter prefer the “base” Brunellos from good producers that find their way into the $25-45 price range – they often have less or no barrique usage and are cleaner, more traditional wines than their premium counterparts (Casanova de Neri is a good example of this).

Can you get better CCR at $25-40 than the Brunellos from Ciacci Piccolomini, Fuligni, Casanova de Neri, Fanti, La Poderina, Poggio Il Castellare and others that I’ve been buying in the last year? I don’t know.

There has always been a strong seperation in preference for wine making styles in the Chianti region. Tradition versus Modern. Even at upper quality levels, one man’s “A” to another man’s rates only a “C”. Most have expectations that puts them in one camp or the other. Most I assume view Chianti belongs with red sauce dishes, which leads to the traditional style. While I enjoy both, I really enjoy CC’s in the modern vein with grilled meats, just as I would a good Zinfandel. Last weekend was a 2006 Querciabella with medium rare steak off the grill.

Ron, I agree with you on the 2006 Querciabella. It is a delicious wine. When they limit the Cab or Merlot to 5% or less, I tend to like them more. The 2006 Rampolla CC fits in that category as well. I also don’t want too much oak (Viticcio, Antinori). I am digging the 100% Sangio CC like Felsina and Fontodi, but I also like the more traditional ones that blend in a little Canaiolo and Colorino such as 2006 Monsanto CCR which I have been through two cases of so far. These wines range in price from $15-30 per bottle and all really deliver the goods. I also like Castell’in Villa, Fonterutoli, La Maialina, Selvapiana Bucerchiale, Rocca di Montegrossi, San Giusto de Rentennano and Cinciole. I also find the Il Borghetto Chiantis to be a bit weird. Light in color like a pinot, but too much heat from the alcohol. Seems kind of thin on the palate to me as well. I generally like the Chiantis that I have praised above way better than Rosso di Montalcino.

I do think you pay an unmerited premium for the Brunello appellation. I also generally find Chiantis more red-fruited than Brunellos, which I prefer. I haven’t had a fully mature Soldera or Biondi-Santi Riserva (although I have one of each in my fridge! ), but by reputation those are world-class wines that would leave even the top Chiantis in the dust. But short of those two producers, give me a Monsanto il Poggio or Felsina Rancia (or an IGT like Flaccianello) every time. I don’t find these wines from strong vintages peak until about age 20 if properly stored–and then they are glorious. The trick is nailing down the provenance.

Monsanto Il Poggio is an incredible wine: the 83, 85 and 90 have all been stellar over the last few years. But the value proposition begins to breakdown at that end of the CCR spectrum (as good as it can be). I did manage to snag the 2001 il Poggio for like $33/bottle, but it probably needs a long sleep still.

Mature Monsanto il Poggios from top years typically run you about $75. I think that’s outstanding value relative to quality. I suppose that’s probably why I snap them up wherever I can. (I did get two '95 il Poggios for $40ish each recently).

While this has turned into a chianti vs. Brunello thread (and perhaps Byron intended it as such), I believe that chianti may be the most underrated red wine appellation anywhere in the world. At $35 a bottle, I have no hesitation pairing up a Felsina Rancia against any other wine in its price range, yet there are many people who never drink any chianti.

Hard to envision a more food-friendly wine, IMO.

That said, I do agree with a number of posters in that more often than not, a good Brunello does seem to have an extra gear.

I’ll post my thoughts from the concurrent thread running on the “other” board:

“Byron, when you speak of scores, whose scores are you referring to? I find my palate usually aligns quite well with Antonio’s and that he scores them in a range I find fair. However, there are other reviewers who I think are indeed guilty of what you suggest.

To your later point, I agree with the notion that the best Chiantis (especially the bona fide Riservas like Il Poggio, Vigna del Sorbo, Rancia, etc.) compete with the better Brunello’s, although perhaps not quite on par with the very finest Brunellos like Soldera, Cerbaiona, Poggio di Sotto, etc.”

So, can you be more specific on which reviewer you’re referring to when suggest the appellation is, generally speaking, underrated?

There are some excellent producer suggestions above, I would add an extremely well priced producer to that list: Villa Cafaggio, who bottles three excellent, 100% Sangiovese bottlings: CC, CCR and the most excellent, albiet modernly twisted, San Martino. Unfortunately, their importer recently pulled out of the US market (hopefully on a tempory basis) and current releases are, for the time being, only available on a Direct Import basis.

**commercial disclaimer - I represent Villa Cafaggio in Colorado

Dude, you basically stole the 2001, feel fortunate to have found it at that price and keep your hands off for at least another decade! Can you handle that?

To your point “the value proposition begins to breakdown at that end of the CCR spectrum”, at the opposite end (low price) the term Riserva can mean many things including a boat load of very medicore quality Riserva bottlings, all of which is driven by the broad parameters under which a “Riserva” can be labeled. That’s why I use the term" True Riserva", whatever that means

Hope to see you tomorrow, still up in the air but I’ll let you know.