RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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Don Cornwell
 
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ALERT CONCERNING WINES IN HENRY TANG AUCTION

Post #4586  Postby Don Cornwell » March 15th 2013, 6:10am

The following is my third in the series of three emails to Christies concerning the problems I found with various lots of DRC wines in the Henry Tang Auction being conducted in Hong Kong later today --

Mr. Elswood:

This is the follow-up to my two prior communications about Lots189 (1971 La Tâche Methuselah) and 256 (78 DRC Montrachet in OWC)

With respect Lot 165 (3 bottles of 1959 Romanée-Conti), I again believe that Lot 165 is not authentic for the following reasons:

First, Lot 165 has four digit bottle numbers instead of five. Except for bottles that have come from Rudy Kurniawan, every bottle of 1959 DRC that I have ever seen, including some Échézeaux and Grands Échézeaux I owned myself, bore five digit numbers. See, for example, the attached photographs.

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959LaTacheHDH5-16-2008_zpscf3dad2b.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959LaTacheDonStottAcker10-29-2011_zpse02919ec.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959LaTacheGuidoMyelmans-consumedin1985_zps0aef9e85.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959LaTachefromEuropeanFineWines_zpsd6314d8d.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959DRCGrandsEchHeritageApril2012_zpsed8b008a.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959DRCGrandsEchCellarTracker_zps42d6a4f8.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/195964and71GEDonStottAcker10-29-11_zps3de8c585.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959LaTacheVinfolio-mainlabel_zpsa56dfc05.jpg

I went to Wine Market Journal and looked up 1959 Romanée Conti and filtered out only the Christie’s entries. I was going to point you to a multitude of bottles of Romanée Conti with five digit numbers sold by Christie’s but it immediately became apparent that the overwhelming majority of bottles of 1959 Romanée Conti that Christie’s has sold in the last five years came directly from Rudy Kurniawan. This includes:

12 different bottles sold as Lots 155 to 160 in the December 9, 2009 auction held in NY
Lots 50 and 51 sold on November 14, 2009 in NY; and
Four bottles sold on September 12, 2009 in NY

Of the other items since 2007 on the list, unfortunately there are no photos or bottle numbers for the bottles listed as sold by Christie’s on April 19, 2011 in Paris, or the September 22, 2009 bottles sold in London.

So starting with the 2007 and moving backwards ….

November 13, 2007 (Geneva) Lot 297 -- Btl No. 08475 (this btl also has a wax capsule. I suggest you look at the catalog and photos in your file)

December 7, 2006 (London) Lot 344 – Btl No. 01496
December 7, 2006 (London) Lot 345 – Btl No. 06786

June 15, 2006 (London) Lots 403 to 405 (No photographs, bottle numbers or catalog available)

January 19, 2006 (London) Lot 232 – Btl No 03517
January 19. 2006 (London) Lot 233 – Btl No. 03523

I stopped at this point because I think I’ve made my point.

Second, the neck labels on these bottles are brand new, bear no oxidation, dirt or stains of any kind and they are hand cut, not machine cut. [See the following linked photos:

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/96b1ca78-bd7a-41fe-bb79-f24f802500b4_zps1e786efd.jpg [url]

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959RC-HenryTang-photo3_zpse3db3bf1.jpg]

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959RC-HenryTang-photo2_zps44ea0d0a.jpg

To put it mildly, they are not remotely believable. I will concede that the neck labels on many 1959s are whiter than the main labels on cellared bottles but all of those bottles show some evidence of dirt, oxidation, wear and tear. Mr. Tang’s do not. Moreover, two of these neck labels are notably irregular and were clearly hand cut. See the attached photos provided by Christie’s.

Third, the wax capsules on these bottles are brand new, exhibit no oxidation or wear and are the wrong color for the vintage. [See the following linked photo:

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/doncornwell/Henry%20Tang%20Auction/1959RC-HenryTang-photo1_zpsff1e4b85.jpg

As I’m sure you must be aware from seeing many DRC bottles over the years, it was relatively unusual for DRC to bottle 750 ml bottles in wax – although yes they did it for Belgium and certain customers who requested it. The wax that DRC used from the 1950s through 1970s was notably red and as it oxidizes over time it gets lighter. DRC began using violet colored capsules and some violet colored wax in the late 1990s. The wax capsules on these bottles appear to be brand new, bear no oxidation and no wear and tear and they are clearly the modern violet in color, not red.

In my opinion, these bottles are clearly not authentic and the fact that this lot purportedly passed your authentication process I find astounding.

(NOTE: This email included 12 photographs)
Don Cornwell
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Post #4587  Postby Bill Bøykin » March 15th 2013, 8:52am

Thanks once again for all your exceptional diligence in these matters,Don.
Please include a response from Elswood......if you ever get one,but congratulations on getting it on record!
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4588  Postby scott c » March 15th 2013, 8:59am

Lot 256 went for HK$847,000 (US$109,667), which is 40% more than the high estimate. Over $9K per bottle.
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Post #4589  Postby scott c » March 15th 2013, 9:01am

Lot 189 was not sold (pulled?). Lot 156 was sold for HK$1,210,000 (US$156,667).
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4590  Postby Dan Collins » March 15th 2013, 9:03am

Thanks, Don.
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Post #4591  Postby Kevin Sidders » March 15th 2013, 8:17pm

Given all that has transpired, I am absolutely dumbfounded that these auction house shenanigans continue unabated.

I don't know what's more flabbergasting -- the lack of professionalism on their part, or the lack of repercussions from consumers and/or law enforcement...
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4592  Postby Bill Bøykin » March 16th 2013, 8:06am

Kevin Sidders wrote:Given all that has transpired, I am absolutely dumbfounded that these auction house shenanigans continue unabated.

I don't know what's more flabbergasting -- the lack of professionalism on their part, or the lack of repercussions from consumers and/or law enforcement...


Kevin,I'm sure that many here share in that feeling of being dumbfounded.Do you see the continuing of these shenanigans as stemming partly from ignorance and/or sloppy inspection.....or more so from just an overwhelming chutzpah,hubris and lack of fear from any aforementioned repercussions.........going wide eyed with feelings of invulnerability into blatant fraud and deception ?
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Post #4593  Postby G. Bienstock » March 16th 2013, 9:49am

The 2 aforementioned lots went for over a quarter of a million buckaroo's. Wow!
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4594  Postby NJBruce » March 16th 2013, 9:01pm

The press in Hong Kong have picked up this big auction story, but have focused on the location of Henry Tang's collection. They seem quite unaware of any issue with counterfeit wines.
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Post #4595  Postby David Glasser » March 17th 2013, 5:26am

A while back I went through a period of being stunned at how little impact the information about fraudulent bottles and Rudy K was having on the auction market. Others here pointed out how little traction this story is getting outside WB and a writer or two like Jancis Robinson. I suspect that even if Rudy and a few auction house people got convicted of fraud, it would create a widespread buzz for a very brief period, and then things would quickly get back to what passes for normal in the auction world.
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Post #4596  Postby Tom Blach » March 17th 2013, 7:12am

It is worth bearing in mind that many of the purchasers of these lots value things other than the way the wine tastes, at which point meanings change quite significantly. Nobody really loves top grade shark's fin for its remarkable texture and claimed health-giving properties, it's all about what it represents.
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Post #4597  Postby billnanson » March 17th 2013, 11:19am

I remain 'astounded' that sellers, buyers, law enforcers and both specialist and generalist media just don't seem to care one bit!
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Post #4598  Postby J a y H a c k » March 17th 2013, 11:58am

billnanson wrote:I remain 'astounded' that sellers, buyers, law enforcers and both specialist and generalist media just don't seem to care one bit!

It's a bunch of rich people with more money than brains fighting over grape juice that was allowed to rot until the yeast died. Why are you astounded about law enforcement and generalist media. It is a story that is completely irrelevant to 99.9%+ of the world. Frankly, although I follow the story for academic interest as an attorney, it is completely irrelevant to me and I have bought wine at AMC auctions.
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Post #4599  Postby billnanson » March 17th 2013, 12:14pm

I'm astounded because it is so blatant, Jay. Daily, I read of people being jailed for years for fraud, stealing tiny fractions of the value involved here. Yet sales such as this appear widely in headlines not just in specialist press, but also (for instance) the FT yesterday:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6e866080 ... abdc0.html
(you may need a subscription for that...)
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Post #4600  Postby David Glasser » March 17th 2013, 2:18pm

Tom Blach wrote:It is worth bearing in mind that many of the purchasers of these lots value things other than the way the wine tastes, at which point meanings change quite significantly. Nobody really loves top grade shark's fin for its remarkable texture and claimed health-giving properties, it's all about what it represents.


I understand this sentiment, Tom. However, in other fields (art, vintage cars, etc.) the collectors prize authenticity and put a premium on it. It's as if collectors of rare wine have succumbed to a mass-hysteria sort of delusional denial. Either that, or they are crass enough not to care about authenticity, and are happy to pass off their trophies as real regardless of provenance.
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Post #4601  Postby Peter Kleban » March 17th 2013, 2:39pm

To me this sounds like a bubble that, sooner or later, will break.
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Post #4602  Postby rebeccagibb » March 18th 2013, 12:15am

Thanks to Don for bringing this to our attention. As a member of the wine press, I have contacted Christie's in Hong Kong and requested a telephone interview in response to his claims. I was refused but have been given an email response, which is now online at Wine-Searcher.
http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2013/03/authenticity-of-henry-tang-wines-queried
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Post #4603  Postby billnanson » March 18th 2013, 12:44am

Well-done Rebecca!
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Post #4604  Postby Lewis Dawson » March 18th 2013, 2:14am

Indeed, well done, Rebecca. And welcome to Wineberserkers. It would be great if the mainstream press picked up this story.
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Post #4605  Postby Anthony Hall » March 18th 2013, 2:26am

Welcome rebecca. How about putting wine beserkers as one of your recommended links !

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Post #4606  Postby Robin Wu » March 18th 2013, 3:24am

Didnt Zachys recently try to sell a similar bottle of 71 La Tache (both in HK and in NY Paulee Auction)? IIRC, they pulled the lot in HK.
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Post #4607  Postby cedricmanet » March 18th 2013, 7:09am

As a small wine merchant from Bordeaux I am really concerned by all these fake bottles...
Confidence is the most important in this business of rare wines and by selling such bottles, these auction houses make consumers become suspicious.
Some people say they are experts of rare wines but when you see these wax capsules, how can you offer them for sale ????
I have sold and seen a lot of old bottles and I do not understand these "professionnals of wine"...
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Post #4608  Postby Kevin Sidders » March 18th 2013, 8:08am

David Glasser wrote:
Tom Blach wrote:It is worth bearing in mind that many of the purchasers of these lots value things other than the way the wine tastes, at which point meanings change quite significantly. Nobody really loves top grade shark's fin for its remarkable texture and claimed health-giving properties, it's all about what it represents.


I understand this sentiment, Tom. However, in other fields (art, vintage cars, etc.) the collectors prize authenticity and put a premium on it. It's as if collectors of rare wine have succumbed to a mass-hysteria sort of delusional denial. Either that, or they are crass enough not to care about authenticity, and are happy to pass off their trophies as real regardless of provenance.


This is precisely what I don't understand about this situation. I was of the impression that these auction houses were incredibly diligent in their authenticity research because they had to be. Perhaps that's the answer in this case -- at least as it relates to wine, maybe they don't have to be if consumers are willing to pay six figure sums regardless...
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Post #4609  Postby Peter Kleban » March 18th 2013, 8:23am

Kevin Sidders wrote:
David Glasser wrote:
Tom Blach wrote:It is worth bearing in mind that many of the purchasers of these lots value things other than the way the wine tastes, at which point meanings change quite significantly. Nobody really loves top grade shark's fin for its remarkable texture and claimed health-giving properties, it's all about what it represents.


I understand this sentiment, Tom. However, in other fields (art, vintage cars, etc.) the collectors prize authenticity and put a premium on it. It's as if collectors of rare wine have succumbed to a mass-hysteria sort of delusional denial. Either that, or they are crass enough not to care about authenticity, and are happy to pass off their trophies as real regardless of provenance.


This is precisely what I don't understand about this situation. I was of the impression that these auction houses were incredibly diligent in their authenticity research because they had to be. Perhaps that's the answer in this case -- at least as it relates to wine, maybe they don't have to be if consumers are willing to pay six figure sums regardless...



To me it sounds like a house of cards. Collectors want old, expensive trophy wines. So they go to established auction houses. They "must" be carefully vetting their offerings, otherwise they wouldn't be respectable. The very high prices reinforce their bone fides. Occasionally removing bottles at the last minute probably helps, if anything. Until somebody like Don comes along...then the whole thing can collapse, once the news gets out and is noticed.
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Post #4610  Postby drsugarman » March 18th 2013, 9:14am

Robin Wu wrote:Didnt Zachys recently try to sell a similar bottle of 71 La Tache (both in HK and in NY Paulee Auction)? IIRC, they pulled the lot in HK.
It didn't sell in NYC ... it was passed.
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Post #4611  Postby Jim Burk » March 18th 2013, 2:47pm

I have asked many fairly serious wine drinkers what they think about this story, and am amazed at how few have any idea that it is going on! So I am not too surprised that the auctions just keep rolling along.
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Post #4612  Postby rebeccagibb » March 18th 2013, 3:00pm

Thanks to Bill, Lewis and Anthony for the warm welcomes to the forum. I shall keep my eyes peeled for more suspicious lots you eagle-eyed bunch detect and ask the questions to the powers that be.

Anthony, I'm happy to put a link from my blog to Wine Berserkers (when I work out how to do it!!)
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Post #4613  Postby Peter Kleban » March 18th 2013, 3:02pm

rebeccagibb wrote:Thanks to Bill, Lewis and Anthony for the warm welcomes to the forum. I shall keep my eyes peeled for more suspicious lots you eagle-eyed bunch detect and ask the questions to the powers that be.

Anthony, I'm happy to put a link from my blog to Wine Berserkers (when I work out how to do it!!)


Let me extend a welcome also! Hope you enjoy this place--it can be a lot of fun.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4614  Postby Todd F r e n c h » March 18th 2013, 4:05pm

Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)
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Post #4615  Postby gene keenan » March 18th 2013, 4:10pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:This just hit my inbox - http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... thenticity


A detailed counterfeit wine allegation by Los Angeles-based lawyer Don Cornwell has been circulating on Wine Berserkers, an online forum with more than a million registered wine buffs, and other forums since Saturday.

Congrats Todd on reaching a million members!!!!!!!!!! [wow.gif]
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Post #4616  Postby cjsavino » March 18th 2013, 4:13pm

image.jpg
image.jpg (53.29 KiB) Viewed 2594 times
Todd F r e n c h wrote:This just hit my inbox - http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... thenticity

I liked the picture
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Post #4617  Postby Todd F r e n c h » March 18th 2013, 4:23pm

gene keenan wrote:
Todd F r e n c h wrote:This just hit my inbox - http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... thenticity


A detailed counterfeit wine allegation by Los Angeles-based lawyer Don Cornwell has been circulating on Wine Berserkers, an online forum with more than a million registered wine buffs, and other forums since Saturday.

Congrats Todd on reaching a million members!!!!!!!!!! [wow.gif]

From 9,000 to over a million! Boo ya!

If I approved all the spam memberships, we'd actually be darn near close to 1,000,000 now! (a trick many forums utilize, activating spam memberships but not allowing them to post)
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)
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Post #4618  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » March 18th 2013, 4:29pm

gene keenan wrote:[
A detailed counterfeit wine allegation by Los Angeles-based lawyer Don Cornwell has been circulating on Wine Berserkers, an online forum with more than a million registered wine buffs, and other forums since Saturday.

Congrats Todd on reaching a million members!!!!!!!!!! [wow.gif]


I dare say many of us aren't really that buff, but why quibble over adjectives?

Bruce
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4619  Postby Didier Li » March 18th 2013, 4:53pm

If these auction houses were really intent on stamping out counterfeit DRCs from their auctions, they would simply hire Mr. Cornwell as a consultant! The fact that they continually ignore him speaks volumes as to their true motives...
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4620  Postby Robin Wu » March 18th 2013, 5:13pm

The fact that this auction was Henry Tang's private collection and the way Christie's hyped up the sale is turning out to be a blessing in disguise. Because of the amount of press around the event, this fake wine story also catching a lot of press and discussion here amongst the general public in HK. Previously, mainly only the wine-drinking community in HK cared, and while certainly the general public at this point in time are looking with shades of schadefreude, at least the awareness levels has improved.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4621  Postby Russell Frye » March 18th 2013, 5:54pm

To Kevin, and others that are similarly astounded:

Many auction houses and other rare wine sellers do NOT put much time into authentication. There are LOTS of reasons. Here are a few:

1. It costs money.
2. It takes time.
3. It requires knowledge.
4. It risks losing sales. Telling the owner that a bottle is questionable or fake would probably mean NOT including it for sale. This could jeopardize the sale of all the bottles from that owner/collector should he leave in a huff and go elsewhere. Many auction houses and other wine businesses would rather take everything they can and, as in the case of the Tang sale, only pull a lot when it seems they have no other choice and when it might help them defend themselves against claims by the media and, however unlikely, the authorities. The edict: Maximize Revenue and Achieve Plausible Deniability.
5. There really is almost no down side. Just about all of these companies have not been penalized in any way.
6. The auction houses generally have written terms which make it clear that if you buy anything from them, you buy it 'as is' and you are fully responsible for inspecting the item before purchase. Of course, with wine, the 'inspection' may not take place until 20 years later when you open the bottle, so you are screwed.

Being in the wine world, you are highly aware of this problem. However, it exists in EVERY collecting field that I know. Refilling an old bottle and dipping it in melted wax is probably a lot easier than faking a Van Gogh, however.

-russell
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4622  Postby Lewis Dawson » March 18th 2013, 7:41pm

Russell Frye, welcome to Wineberserkers. Of course you are correct why this continues to happen. We continue to scream about it with the hope that our voice will be heard every now and then (seems to be happening with Rudy, and we are all too happy to attribute that to Don Cornwell's great detective work, although others were also involved, perhaps even yourself). I presume (could be wrong) that you are the Russell Frye that has been active in wine fraud litigation, and if you are, we owe you a hearty thank you for your efforts. I can say the lack of good-faith efforts to present authentic wines has been an eye-opener to me. I still feel comfortable with HDH, but Acker and Christie's have had zero percent of my business in the last few years. I am peanuts compared to most, so I doubt they miss me too much.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4623  Postby Don Cornwell » March 18th 2013, 8:02pm

Robin Wu wrote:Didnt Zachys recently try to sell a similar bottle of 71 La Tache (both in HK and in NY Paulee Auction)? IIRC, they pulled the lot in HK.


Robin:

You are partially correct and partially incorrect. Zachy's NY catalog for September 27-28 2012 originally included Lot 1272 -- a purported Jeroboam of 1971 La Tâche (bottle No. 0095) with Foreign Brands strip labels (again with the quantity in pints and ounces and handwritten corrections) and a two signature label identical to the one in the Tang auction. As some of you may recall, many subtantially identical bottles of 1971 La Tâche and Romanée Conti have originated from Rudy Kurniawan, some of which were clearly demonstrated to be counterfeit.

I saw the catalog and I contacted Jeff Zacharia and Michael Jessen at Zachy's and shared the information I had, along with multiple photographs. To their credit, Zachy's pulled the bottle.

In December, Zachy's Hong Kong received another very similar jeroboam of 71 La Tâche which someone wanted to consign for auction. David Wainwright from Zachy's Hong Kong contacted me, long before the bottle ever made the catalog, to ask my opinion. I shared some additional data with Zachys that I had gathered about similar bottles in the preceding two months. This bottle also had an alleged original wooden case which did not match those from other known authentic exemplars. To the credit of Mr. Wainwright and Zachy's, they declined to offer the jeroboam.

The jeroboam of 71 La Tâche in this month's Zachy's Paulee auction (Lot 1070) I believe to be be an authentic bottle. It was consigned by a good friend of mine who is one of the people who has been fighting valiantly against counterfeits with me for many years. This bottle had a Lebègue neck label (a correct one with the correct accent mark and correct Et symbol instead of an ampersand), it was a single signature bottle (H. de Villaine), with five digits (00011) and Produce of France on the label above the block La Tâche, as the UK bottles from this vintage should have. It was also acquired by my friend from Christie's London on November 20, 1986 (lot 269).

Unlike Christie's, Acker-Merrall and Morrell who, with the single exception of the 71 La Tache Methuselah in the Henry Tang auction, have simply ignored my communications for the past year, Zachy's deserves applause for doing the right thing -- when wines were shown to be suspect (even if not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be counterfeit) they withdrew the wines. Spectrum also did that with one lot this past fall -- again I salute Spectrum for doing the right thing -- just as I criticized both entities in the past.

My friends and I continue to monitor the auction market as best we can (we all have full time jobs and it is often tremendously time consuming to try to 'document' for an auction house why a particular wine is counterfeit or suspect.) Our collective expertise is mostly in burgundy and so it is likely that many counterfeit bottles escape our notice (and bear in mind we're limiited to photos in the catalogs or the occassional requested photos).

When we see things that we believe are counterfeit or strongly suspected to be counterfeit we notify the auction houses, explain and document the problems, and ask them to pull the wines. We don't publicize these activities where the auction houses do the right thing. Also sometimes there are some wines we think are suspect that the auction companies disagree with us on where we haven't made a public issue about it. What gets reported here is somewhat a question of judgment.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4624  Postby scott c » March 19th 2013, 7:14am

Todd F r e n c h wrote:This just hit my inbox - http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... thenticity

"Tang said they were bought from a reputable British agent 20 years ago."


This is baloney.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4625  Postby gene keenan » March 19th 2013, 8:24am

Russell Frye wrote:<snip

Being in the wine world, you are highly aware of this problem. However, it exists in EVERY collecting field that I know. Refilling an old bottle and dipping it in melted wax is probably a lot easier than faking a Van Gogh, however.

-russell


You are spot on sir.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4626  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » March 19th 2013, 9:18am

gene keenan wrote:
Russell Frye wrote:<snip

Being in the wine world, you are highly aware of this problem. However, it exists in EVERY collecting field that I know. Refilling an old bottle and dipping it in melted wax is probably a lot easier than faking a Van Gogh, however.

-russell


You are spot on sir.


+1. Anyone who has watched shows like Antiques Roadshow or even Pawn Stars has seen a number of items that are supposed one thing from 100+ years ago turn out to be more recent reproductions or just outright fakes. It obviously takes a certain level of expertise and determination to separate the likely wheat from the suspicious chaff. If folks can fake items ranging from baseball cards to Picasso paintings, then obviously it's not much of a surprise what can (and does) happen in the wine field.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4627  Postby Mike E. » March 19th 2013, 10:55am

Bruce Leiserowitz wrote:
gene keenan wrote:[
A detailed counterfeit wine allegation by Los Angeles-based lawyer Don Cornwell has been circulating on Wine Berserkers, an online forum with more than a million registered wine buffs, and other forums since Saturday.

Congrats Todd on reaching a million members!!!!!!!!!! [wow.gif]


I dare say many of us aren't really that buff, but why quibble over adjectives?

Bruce


Isn't that was a wine buff is?.... people who quibble about adjectives (and sometimes adverbs) when describing wine! [cheers.gif]
Last edited by Mike E. on March 19th 2013, 1:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4628  Postby Carol Forest » March 19th 2013, 1:08pm

I wrote and published an article right before Tang's Auction last week suspecting counterfeits (warned by friends in HK that I may get sued) and today had published another post in regards of Christie's reply and the withdrawal here:
http://qipost.com/christie-s-the-henry-tang-collection
(15 March in chinese)

http://carolforest.com/2013/03/20/dumping-or-sharing/
(19 March in English)
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4629  Postby NickWittman » March 19th 2013, 1:09pm

Don Cornwell wrote:My friends and I continue to monitor the auction market as best we can (we all have full time jobs and it is often tremendously time consuming to try to 'document' for an auction house why a particular wine is counterfeit or suspect.) Our collective expertise is mostly in burgundy and so it is likely that many counterfeit bottles escape our notice (and bear in mind we're limiited to photos in the catalogs or the occassional requested photos).


Continued good work keeping everyone well updated Don. The particular comment in Bold is notable. Remember the file cabinet picture taken at RK's home was filled with Bordeaux labels! Will a list of the specific wines / vintages from the labels ever come to light as a result of these hearings? At a minimum, would be "red flag list" for wine buyers to consider prior to purchase, or initiate an audit of their personal cellar if the wines already exist? The fraudulent activity was pretty big, and suspect the same for the cleanup!
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD TH

Post #4630  Postby Mike E. » March 19th 2013, 1:51pm

NickWittman wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:My friends and I continue to monitor the auction market as best we can (we all have full time jobs and it is often tremendously time consuming to try to 'document' for an auction house why a particular wine is counterfeit or suspect.) Our collective expertise is mostly in burgundy and so it is likely that many counterfeit bottles escape our notice (and bear in mind we're limiited to photos in the catalogs or the occassional requested photos).


Continued good work keeping everyone well updated Don. The particular comment in Bold is notable. Remember the file cabinet picture taken at RK's home was filled with Bordeaux labels! Will a list of the specific wines / vintages from the labels ever come to light as a result of these hearings? At a minimum, would be "red flag list" for wine buyers to consider prior to purchase, or initiate an audit of their personal cellar if the wines already exist? The fraudulent activity was pretty big, and suspect the same for the cleanup!


Yes indeed, we are lucky to have Don and his friends checking out the Burgundies. [welldone.gif]
The other labels and boxes are very worrying and possibly worth a thread of their own. I'm sure someone must have some data to share on the Bordeaux, Californian and other labels that are known counterfeits.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4631  Postby Jay Miller » March 19th 2013, 6:10pm

FYI, I was reading the South China Morning Post we got in our room this morning and lo and behold there was an article on counterfeit wine with a quote from Don.

Don, let me know if you'd like me to mail the article to you, I'll pack it just in case.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4632  Postby Brad Kane » March 19th 2013, 6:19pm

Jay Miller wrote:FYI, I was reading the South China Morning Post we got in our room this morning and lo and behold there was an article on counterfeit wine with a quote from Don.

Don, let me know if you'd like me to mail the article to you, I'll pack it just in case.


Or, you can do what all the kids do these days and find a link on the Internet: Wine investors warned to be vigilant after doubts over Henry Tang sales
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4633  Postby Todd F r e n c h » March 19th 2013, 7:26pm

Brad Kane wrote:
Jay Miller wrote:FYI, I was reading the South China Morning Post we got in our room this morning and lo and behold there was an article on counterfeit wine with a quote from Don.

Don, let me know if you'd like me to mail the article to you, I'll pack it just in case.


Or, you can do what all the kids do these days and find a link on the Internet: Wine investors warned to be vigilant after doubts over Henry Tang sales

Or this post - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61172&start=4585&p=1117284#p1117284
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4634  Postby Brad Kane » March 19th 2013, 7:55pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:
Brad Kane wrote:
Jay Miller wrote:FYI, I was reading the South China Morning Post we got in our room this morning and lo and behold there was an article on counterfeit wine with a quote from Don.

Don, let me know if you'd like me to mail the article to you, I'll pack it just in case.


Or, you can do what all the kids do these days and find a link on the Internet: Wine investors warned to be vigilant after doubts over Henry Tang sales

Or this post - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61172&start=4585&p=1117284#p1117284


Two different articles, Frenchie.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4635  Postby Mel Hill » March 19th 2013, 8:17pm

A detailed counterfeit wine allegation by Los Angeles-based lawyer Don Cornwell has been circulating on Wine Berserkers, an online forum with more than a million registered wine buffs, and other forums since Saturday.

Way to go Todd!!! [wow.gif]
Hope 50% are paying customers!!

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... thenticity
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