Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #151  Postby Dan Kravitz » December 7th 2011, 10:47pm

Just back from a long trip and don't have time to read the whole thread, but here is my take on Jay Miller:

I met and tasted with him ~15 times in a professional capacity since he rejoined the Wine Advocate, and half a dozen times in a non-professional capacity a long time ago. During these tastings our discussions would digress from wine to memories of people in the business we both knew and occasionally other topics. I disagreed with him about wine more than is usual with most professional wine critics. I sometimes thought his ratings and comments were generous to a fault. Over the years I felt that his work for the Wine Advocate improved substantially. I very much appreciated his introduction of 'haiku' tasting notes (my term, I'm referring to his very brief descriptors of good wines that were not of enough interest to merit full-blown prose; IMO he succeeded in conveying a lot about them in a few words, while wasting little time or paper).

I don't claim to have an exceptional BS detector, but I think Jay Miller to is an open and honest person. I find it very hard to believe that he was 'selling' access to the WA and would have to see smoking gun proof.

I wish him well in the future.

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #152  Postby Ignacio Villalgordo » December 8th 2011, 2:33am

Being a Spaniard, and tasting for elmundovino.com here in Spain all of this is both good and bad news. I would rather have someone with more credit, love and background of Spanish wines writing for the Advocate. Nevertheless, the situation could not continue as the former writer of the WA was ever questioned.

I grew to learn many of the wines and regions through Parker's newsletter. Although I made mistakes along the way, it provided a wealth of information and fun. Also his board was great, with the most amazing group of knowledgeable people I have ever seen. But RP has stopped reviewing lots of regions, and whilst some are covered by knowledgeable people others are covered by people that do not know the region, the history, and the characters involved in making Spanish wine. In this shrinking tasting role, Parker has introduced some tasters in some regions they do not know or understand. Some have done a good job (Squires) and others clearly have not.

Although to assign points to a wine you just need to be a consistent taster, it is also true that to review such a complex and historical country as Spain is a complex task. Spanish wines range from Sherry to Rioja, from Albariño to Monastrell; from Artadi to Tondonia; from the sunny South to the cold North. Without an open mind, passion, an understanding of the place where the wines are made, and knowledge of the people that make the wine, I personally think that the reviews lack perspective.

Don’t get me wrong. Let me say that Neal’s palate is more tuned with mine than other critics’, but has made some statements in the past in which he admits he does not understand some of the styles, grapes or wines made here.

On the whole Pancho / Miller situation, it did not sound right from the start. Miller had no clue about Spanish wines and Pancho was a newcomer with no known background of wine that became “the first Spanish MW” in an astonishing timeframe. The combination was a time bomb that could and has exploded.

I never met Miller, but have been told that Big Jay is quite a nice guy and knows wine. Nevertheless, his reviews are all over the place and so have little credit; and his name has moved from one scandal to the next, which was no good news for the Spanish wine scene. I think that the fact that he will no longer review the wines from Spain is positive.

Pancho is quite a character. On the plus side, someone that has taken promotion and networking to a level the wine industry had not previously seen, and has helped to promote Spanish wines abroad. On the minus, a let me call it “fishy” way of working in such a difficult environment as the Spanish wine market is; with a clear agenda; and attitudes that are far away of the WA standards.

All in all, I hope we move away from all of this ASAP. I think the wine scene here is one of the most interesting in the world. It is ever changing and dynamic. It is fascinating. We need someone that loves the wines. If it is Neal, so be it. Best of luck to him.

Finally, I would like that the Wine Advocate took a more humble approach to the complex world of wine. In order to regain credit they need to hire subject matter experts for each region, with a balanced view of wine. Coverage by experts on the field could then be deeper and the page will have regained interest. Then, I will re-subscribe

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #153  Postby Peter Chiu » December 8th 2011, 6:03am

I don't claim to have an exceptional BS detector, but I think Jay Miller to is an open and honest person. I find it very hard to believe that he was 'selling' access to the WA and would have to see smoking gun proof.

I wish him well in the future.

Dan Kravitz


Dan....thanks for your information regarding your observation and comments towards Jay Miller. [cheers.gif]

It only makes sense that Miller has to let go by WA due to recent event. But who started all this....? Open and honest is of course important but working for WA as a wine writer should need more than that....?

Why an organization like WA engaged someone likt that, is well beyond logic.

Sneak, without a head, does not go anywhere !

Dan - my last comment, needless to say, is not about you.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #154  Postby Jeff Lewis » December 8th 2011, 9:05am

I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever Be Eternally Really Sure Except Reading Key Expert ReviewS?
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #155  Postby M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th 2011, 10:02am

Jeff Lewis wrote:I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever Be Eternally Really Sure Except Reading Key Expert ReviewS?


?
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Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #156  Postby Alan C h a n » December 8th 2011, 10:03am

Matt, think acronym.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #157  Postby Victor Hong » December 8th 2011, 10:08am

Jeff Lewis wrote:I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever *e *ternally *eally *ure *xcept *eading *ey *xpert *eview*?

Fixed.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #158  Postby M A T T H A R T L E Y » December 8th 2011, 10:12am

Victor Hong wrote:
Jeff Lewis wrote:I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever *e *ternally *eally *ure *xcept *eading *ey *xpert *eview*?

Fixed.


ah ha...little slow today!

MS must just be pissed...not only does he get passed over for a "promotion" he spends all day taking stuff like that down...
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #159  Postby Cris Whetstone » December 8th 2011, 10:18am

Jeff Lewis wrote:I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever Be Eternally Really Sure Except Reading Key Expert ReviewS?

Nicely done Jeff. [berserker.gif]
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #160  Postby Bob Wood » December 8th 2011, 10:19am

Jeff Lewis wrote:I just posted the following on the ebob Dr J thread and it was taken down by Chairman Maork. Can't imagine why...

Will I Never Ever Be Eternally Really Sure Except Reading Key Expert ReviewS?

[berserker.gif]
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #161  Postby Dan Kravitz » December 8th 2011, 6:38pm

Kudos to Squires for picking up on it.

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #162  Postby D@vid Bu3ker » December 8th 2011, 7:05pm

There's no need to post juvenile shots "over there." It just discredits what happens "over here."
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #163  Postby Peter Chiu » December 9th 2011, 6:42am

In a way....yes. We are not in China.......where I left when I was young and did some rice farming there.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #164  Postby Neal.Mollen » December 9th 2011, 6:47am

According to David Schildknecht, Jay's departure was in the works last summer, long before the most recent mess. Maybe his previous problems forced his hand. Whether he would have been booted out had he not already been planning to leave is a question we will never be able to answer.

Jay did TWA harm. It was past time for him to go. I have difficulty seeing Neal Martin fill that particular spot, but he has the credibility, the writing skills, and (to me anyway) the palate to make those reviews of consequence again, so I am happy about the change.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #165  Postby Ken V » December 9th 2011, 7:21am

Dan Kravitz wrote:Kudos to Squires for picking up on it.

Dan Kravitz

Dan,

Just curious if you give kudos to Squires for having his software blank out "berserkers" in the first place? I don't support bothering to try to sneak it in over there, but can you really give kudos to Mark for this?
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #166  Postby Dan Kravitz » December 9th 2011, 7:59am

Ken,

Kudos to Squires for sharp eyes. Shame on Squires and the Wine Advocate for blocking posts that have something to do with wine and are not obscene or inciting to violence.

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #167  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 8:10am

Squires is a worm. I was a paying member of TWA for years. Shortly after the Squires board first started, I questioned why Bob Parker should taste at the wineries rather than at an independent location. I also thought that Bob should have to buy the wine like you and me. My post was deleted and I got an email warning. I then posted a few more negative comments. I was banned from the board but not from my WA online access otherwise.

I never knew that also happened to others. I just quit wine boards all together.

A year or so ago, I went in search online of wine geeks like myself. I found Beserkers.

I had no idea that others ha been banned. I had no idea so many like minded folks existed out there. I am proud to be a berserker! [cheers.gif]
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #168  Postby Peter Chiu » December 9th 2011, 8:36am

Steve...perhaps someone can not handle the truth.

I heard that Bob gave awards ( as a contest ? ) to some of the posters there. I am not sure but perhaps Hank ( who posts here too ) got it. I am very happy for him [cheers.gif] .
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #169  Postby WvanGorp » December 9th 2011, 9:01am

Someone mentioned above that Jay harmed TWA. While true, in my view, it was really Bob who harmed TWA by putting Miller in that job and keeping him there (the same could be said for Squires as board moderator). I can attest from personal experience and knowledge that many people warned Bob about Jay and Squires and he was deaf to any feedback.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #170  Postby M.Kaplan » December 9th 2011, 9:13am

WvanGorp wrote:Someone mentioned above that Jay harmed TWA. While true, in my view, it was really Bob who harmed TWA by putting Miller in that job and keeping him there (the same could be said for Squires as board moderator). I can attest from personal experience and knowledge that many people warned Bob about Jay and Squires and he was deaf to any feedback.


Hostile to feedback, ultimately, privately and temperately given years ago by many, including you and others who previously had a friendly personal (as opposed to online) relationship with Parker.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #171  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 9:22am

Peter Chiu wrote:Steve...perhaps someone can not handle the truth.

I heard that Bob gave awards ( as a contest ? ) to some of the posters there. I am not sure but perhaps Hank ( who posts here too ) got it. I am very happy for him [cheers.gif] .


What kinds of awards Peter? For what?
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #172  Postby Neal.Mollen » December 9th 2011, 9:24am

WvanGorp wrote:Someone mentioned above that Jay harmed TWA. While true, in my view, it was really Bob who harmed TWA by putting Miller in that job and keeping him there (the same could be said for Squires as board moderator). I can attest from personal experience and knowledge that many people warned Bob about Jay and Squires and he was deaf to any feedback.


True, but Jay was (and I suppose is) Bob's friend. Loyalty and friendship can blind us to the faults of others, and I have some sympathy for those who make mistakes for that reason. I know I have. Loyalty dies hard, and on the whole I think that's a good thing
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #173  Postby M.Kaplan » December 9th 2011, 9:27am

Neal,
That is why crony jobs are unwise.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #174  Postby Peter Chiu » December 9th 2011, 9:58am

SteveC wrote:
Peter Chiu wrote:Steve...perhaps someone can not handle the truth.

I heard that Bob gave awards ( as a contest ? ) to some of the posters there. I am not sure but perhaps Hank ( who posts here too ) got it. I am very happy for him [cheers.gif] .


What kinds of awards Peter? For what?



Bob did a wine-question kind of contest. The awards were special wine glasses ( hand-crafted or something like ). The info should be in a form of thread there.

I learned about it ( from friends ) because Hank ( Mr. Gillespie who posted there and here ) was one of the winners. Hank very nicely and politely expressed his thanks to Bob in one of the threads there.

Hank is the one who posted the following message ( link : http://wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=55663 ) ( in reply to a message passed by Neal Mollen ) in the thread : More Dr. Big Jay Miller and The Spanish Wine Industry Controversies

Pleaee note that I know Hank and that I have nothing but good admiration for him [cheers.gif]



You seem to be somewhat ambivalent, Neal. Last time I looked the courts convicted those charged before sentences were handed down ( something
about being innocent until proven guilty ).

Reading between the lines it appears to me that the promoter is picking off some hard $$$ from those wineries wishing to participate. The entire allegations appear
pretty weak in the light of what Miller is doing. Yes, he made a mistake in Australia some time ago, but that was dealt with and isn't likely to be repeated in
any fashion. However, the disgruntled former participants in Parker's Bulletin Board seem to want to believe anything negative about TWA.

"Interesting", Tex? Only if one wants to participate in unfounded gossip, I suppose.

Hank
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #175  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 10:04am

Like I said, I got banned quickly. I was on TWA's board for a very short while (weeks at most - then I was locked out).

BUT ... like an idiot, I kept my hard and online subscriptions to TWA for years. (I was a dope).

Finally cut the cord this summer.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #176  Postby Peter Chiu » December 9th 2011, 10:10am

Hmm....are you perhaps like what Hank said : a disgrountled former participants in ParkerB ? Do you also believe anything negative about TWA ?

Watch out.... [wink.gif] Maybe you are quilty as charge ?



However, the disgruntled former participants in Parker's Bulletin Board seem to want to believe anything negative about TWA.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #177  Postby Peter Kleban » December 9th 2011, 5:21pm

WvanGorp wrote:Someone mentioned above that Jay harmed TWA. While true, in my view, it was really Bob who harmed TWA by putting Miller in that job and keeping him there (the same could be said for Squires as board moderator). I can attest from personal experience and knowledge that many people warned Bob about Jay and Squires and he was deaf to any feedback.


Bottom line for me is that Bob is just not that savvy. What does all this tsuris buy him? A lot of grief at best.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #178  Postby James Wright » December 9th 2011, 6:11pm

David M. Bueker wrote:There's no need to post juvenile shots "over there." It just discredits what happens "over here."


not in the least, David, dear—Mark asked (likely still asks) for it time and time again.
and the only thing that will discredit what happens here is lack of content. Which seems an unlikely possibility.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #179  Postby Bob Wood » December 9th 2011, 6:30pm

James Wright wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:There's no need to post juvenile shots "over there." It just discredits what happens "over here."


not in the least, David, dear—Mark asked (likely still asks) for it time and time again.

I think the correct verb here is "begged".
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #180  Postby Dan Kravitz » December 9th 2011, 6:41pm

to all:

There have been posts about the recent Parker contest on the wine board. I participated in and was one of a number of winners of that contest. My winning post was dashed off and I'm not particularly proud of the prose, although I stand completely behind the thoughts. For those who don't have access to or don't wish to go to the Parker board, here are the posts announcing the contest and my 'winning' entry:

Here is the post from Parker announcing the contest:
How should I say it?....wine is fascinating, fun, educational, an adventure...and no matter how much you know, you always remain a student. It is also to be cherished for its diversity, which is greater than ever before with the recapturing of indigenous grape varietals, with the prolific abandoning of cooperatives by small artisinal farmers with wonderful little vineyards,and estate bottling...the last 20 years have truly been the Golden Age of wine and we are the beneficiaries...yet what I continue to observe is an unflattering and at times nasty partisanship that uses a strawman or strawthing or just blatant misinformation and dishonesty...about wine-makers or wine writers/critics, a style of wine, an entire wine region,a wine-making technique.... to attack, divide, dismiss, put-down, and inflame.....as someone who is an optimist,who sees wine as a beverage to rejoice about, that pulls diverse people together, not apart, that fosters and serves as a catalyst for goodwill, I am at a loss to understand this....so here's the challenge....write in under 250 words why you think this is..or why you think I am over-reaching,...all the best essays(one judge-MOI) will get a set of these hand-blown and very beautiful glasses I had hand-made by an Italian artist that we used to sell and give the proceeds to local charities. They have a retail value of $250, but this is a worthy cause I hope...and why not make them available to everyone who writes an interesting response that is well-reasoned.The cut-off date for entries will be OCTOBER 17,when I will pick the best responses..up to 25

Here is my reply that was one of the winners:
The World of Wine in 2011

The world of wine is at an historic peak and continues to achieve new heights, the sluggish world economy notwithstanding. More people are drinking a wider variety of wines than ever before. The number of consumers and wines, and the volume of wine consumed are all at historic highs and growing strongly. How odd and wonderful that a 7000 year old industry enjoys this growth.

But there are flaws in paradise. Many of them stem from shrill, intolerant people whose think only their opinions are valid. This sadly mimics the political world today.

Do you like natural wines? They are the only authentic expressions of the history and terroir of this noble beverage.
Do you hate natural wines? They are oxidized, flawed bottlings that mimic the wines of 5000 years ago, when they were the only option for getting high.

Do you like industrial wines? Kendall Jackson makes two million cases a year of flawless, flavorful, balanced Chardonnay that opens the world of fine wine to millions who otherwise could never afford it.
Do you hate industrial wines? Soulless producers using poisonous chemicals infest our world with huge monoculture vineyards that produce the lowest common denominator of wine lacking all character.

All of these positions have validity, and all are expressed in an intolerably intolerant fashion.

Let us avoid these absolutist positions and instead celebrate the profusion of a beverage that brings pleasure to a billion people.

About a month after posting this, I received a package from Robert Parker with two very beautiful, heavy, hand-blown Italian glasses intended for Brunello. As I don't have any Brunello, I first used them for fine Medoc. The wine tasted great in them. I sent Bob Parker a 'thank you'.

These are beautiful glasses, but anybody who reads anything into this contest other than Bob Parker offering his readers a reward for their opinions on a topic of importance to the world of wine should invest their time in wondering who really killed JFK, if Obama was really born in Hawaii and other such pursuits.

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #181  Postby Kris Patten » December 9th 2011, 8:01pm

Dan, sometimes we all take wine too seriously. It should be about the time you share with friends, family, and strangers you met that evening in a restaurant at a neighboring table who asked "what are you drinking over there?" and struck up a conversation with, never to see again, but had a common love.....fermented grape juice.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #182  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 8:06pm

I have been actively posting on this board for 6 months or so and trolling for a year or so before that. I have seldom bashed Bob Parker (not to say never). Bob was one of the primary forces in my early education into wine 14 years or so ago. Did it lead me to buy lots of wines that I wish I hadn't? Yes!! But so did Wine Spectator, many retailers and a lot of folks that I still consider close friends.

Bob Parker is one of the major forces in the modern history of wine. Like it or not.

I am glad to have had Bob Parker educate me via TWA on wine. I am glad to have learned much from his writing.

Do I wish that I hadn't relied on his scores and tasting notes as much as I did? Absolutely!!!

Do I wish that his tastes hadn't increasingly trended toward bigger and bigger wines and that wine makers hadn't discovered how to create RMP wines? Again, Absolutely!!!

Big J had to go. I am glad that this finally happened. Not because I hate DR. Jay. I didn't know him.

He was, from all personal accounts that I have heard, a great guy. I can say that for me personally, Dr. Jay's tasting notes were beyond worthless. I can also say that he ended up being surrounded by controversy. Thus, it was time to go.

I do wish him well. I wish RMP well also.

My tastes have changed, as have my reference points. I am glad to have a wide community of seasoned (and not so seasoned) wine enthusiasts to learn from. In short, I am proud to be a berserker! [cheers.gif]
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #183  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 8:07pm

P.S. Squires is a worm! [snort.gif]
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #184  Postby Ken V » December 9th 2011, 9:36pm

Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #185  Postby SteveC » December 9th 2011, 9:39pm

[welldone.gif]
Ken V wrote:Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #186  Postby WvanGorp » December 9th 2011, 10:46pm

As usual, the insightful Mike Steinberger has more on Miller Time: http://winediarist.com/miller-time-one-more-time/
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #187  Postby Jonathan Loesberg » December 10th 2011, 6:23am

SteveC wrote:[welldone.gif]
Ken V wrote:Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!


This may be right about Clos de Tart, for all I know, but it wasn't responsive to Parker's question. I certainly wouldn't have won either, had I entered, since Parker's question was a classic self-consuming artifact.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #188  Postby Nola Palomar » December 10th 2011, 6:36am

Pancho has posted The Wine Academy of Spain's official response.
http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=571
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #189  Postby Ken V » December 10th 2011, 6:58am

Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
SteveC wrote:[welldone.gif]
Ken V wrote:Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!


This may be right about Clos de Tart, for all I know, but it wasn't responsive to Parker's question. I certainly wouldn't have won either, had I entered, since Parker's question was a classic self-consuming artifact.

I thought it was very responsive to Parker's question. He set up the strawman that the world of wine is now a wonderful place yet there is persistent negativity. He then asked "...write in under 250 words why you think this is..or why you think I am over-reaching,.." If you recognize the first quote in my "essay" as being from Parker and the 2nd as being from his critic that he was paying to review the 2006 Clos de Tart (David Schildknecht), I think you can see it is quite responsive. The point of my essay is that he is the world as he sees it, he just doesn't recognize his significant role in the negativity that he bemoans.

BTW I did not expect to win.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #190  Postby Jonathan Loesberg » December 10th 2011, 7:09am

Ken V wrote:
Jonathan Loesberg wrote:
SteveC wrote:[welldone.gif]
Ken V wrote:Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!


This may be right about Clos de Tart, for all I know, but it wasn't responsive to Parker's question. I certainly wouldn't have won either, had I entered, since Parker's question was a classic self-consuming artifact.

I thought it was very responsive to Parker's question. He set up the strawman that the world of wine is now a wonderful place yet there is persistent negativity. He then asked "...write in under 250 words why you think this is..or why you think I am over-reaching,.." If you recognize the first quote in my "essay" as being from Parker and the 2nd as being from his critic that he was paying to review the 2006 Clos de Tart (David Schildknecht), I think you can see it is quite responsive. The point of my essay is that he is the world as he sees it, he just doesn't recognize his significant role in the negativity that he bemoans.

BTW I did not expect to win.


I recognized Parker as the author of the first note but not Schildknecht as the author of the second. I fail to see the contradiction as an example of the negativity he bemoans and his publishing a tasting note that disagrees with him tends to show an openmindedness I assume you are arguing he doesn't have.

I don't particularly want to defend Parker. He sees disagreement with him too often as negativity and does so in this essay question criticizing what he indulges in. But disputing tasting notes should prove nothing except that the tasters disagree.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #191  Postby Mark Golodetz » December 10th 2011, 7:23am

Ken V wrote:Here is my essay (which did not win):

"The biggest disappointment was the 2006 Clos de Tart. Like so many red Burgundies from 2006 seem to be, it was underripe, excessively acidified, and almost textureless. It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists."

"The 2006 Clos de Tart reflects only a minor inclusion of stems when compared with the 2005, as well as a lighter regimen of pigeage. The ripeness of lightly-cooked black raspberry, cassis, and cherry here pushes in the direction of liqueur or even syrup, with notes of vanilla, lanolin, coconut, and caramel from the (100%) new barrels further contributing to a confectionary personality. This is silken in its sumptuous smoothness and finishes with a vibrant sense of palate-staining fruit intensity and grip. For all the persistent impression of sweetness present, in the end there is brightness as well. Depth here comes via chocolate richness, whereas I would personally have welcomed some signs that mineral or animal mystery was in the offing. Almost certainly, though, this will keep well for a decade or more, during which it might gain in interest or intrigue to match its sheer sweetness and unctuousness of fruit."

Viva la différence!



Kind of curious how it could be underripe and acidified. I suppose it is possible, but it doesn't make any sense. Did Parker know that acid had been added?

More important, I would hope two critics would be a lot closer in actually describing the wine. The interpretation, scoring and pleasure quotient may vary, but knowing and conveying what's in in the bloody glass should be pretty standard.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #192  Postby Robert Dentice » December 10th 2011, 7:40am

Is this now a collectors item?

http://www.winebid.com/Item/3762437
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #193  Postby Ken V » December 10th 2011, 8:10am

Jonathan Loesberg wrote:I recognized Parker as the author of the first note but not Schildknecht as the author of the second. I fail to see the contradiction as an example of the negativity he bemoans and his publishing a tasting note that disagrees with him tends to show an openmindedness I assume you are arguing he doesn't have.

I don't particularly want to defend Parker. He sees disagreement with him too often as negativity and does so in this essay question criticizing what he indulges in. But disputing tasting notes should prove nothing except that the tasters disagree.

That's exactly my point. Did you read his note? "It’s a sham, and it’s amazing how few people are willing to stand up and admit such stuff exists." It's not just a TN, it's an indictment of everyone who disagrees with him including his own man, David. It's not enough for him to say "I didn't like this wine." He feels compelled to attack those who do.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #194  Postby Eric LeVine » December 10th 2011, 8:14am

Nola Palomar wrote:Pancho has posted The Wine Academy of Spain's official response.
http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=571

Too bad they can't even spell accusation correctly...

THE WINE ACADEMY OF SPAIN CATEGORICALLY DENIES THE ACUSSATIONS AGAINST PANCHO CAMPO AND JAY MILLER

d. All the mentioned points detailed above are supported by contracts and documents dully (sic) signed and stamped by the corresponding wine organizations. These documents clearly demonstrate that the accusations against our company are unfounded and false. Copies of these documents are available through our attorney for their review.

Best typo ever! DULLY SIGNED.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #195  Postby D@vid Bu3ker » December 10th 2011, 8:52am

James Wright wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:There's no need to post juvenile shots "over there." It just discredits what happens "over here."


not in the least, David, dear—Mark asked (likely still asks) for it time and time again.
and the only thing that will discredit what happens here is lack of content. Which seems an unlikely possibility.


As usual James - I disagree with you. Maintaining at least a minimum level of class if always the better course. Over and out.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #196  Postby Peter Chiu » December 10th 2011, 9:13am

WvanGorp wrote:As usual, the insightful Mike Steinberger has more on Miller Time: http://winediarist.com/miller-time-one-more-time/



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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #197  Postby Todd F r e n c h » December 10th 2011, 9:16am

Eric LeVine wrote:
Nola Palomar wrote:Pancho has posted The Wine Academy of Spain's official response.
http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=571

Too bad they can't even spell accusation correctly...

THE WINE ACADEMY OF SPAIN CATEGORICALLY DENIES THE ACUSSATIONS AGAINST PANCHO CAMPO AND JAY MILLER

d. All the mentioned points detailed above are supported by contracts and documents dully (sic) signed and stamped by the corresponding wine organizations. These documents clearly demonstrate that the accusations against our company are unfounded and false. Copies of these documents are available through our attorney for their review.

Best typo ever! DULLY SIGNED.

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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #198  Postby Nick Gangas » December 10th 2011, 9:16am

Dan,

The issue I'm having with RP statement is he is a MAJOR source of this negativity. As Ken points out it's not enough to give his opinion but he must destroy anyone who disagrees with him. Now he launches some bullshit contest to sling arrows at all his critics. This is the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard of and the reason I cancelled my subscription after 20 some years.
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #199  Postby WvanGorp » December 10th 2011, 9:31am

One interesting element is who brought Campo onboard as a handler (I can't imagine Galloni or Schildknecht need handlers). One ITB'er posted on FaceBook that it was not Miller who wanted Pancho involved, but Parker himself. Pancho, in his denial of the accusations, states that it was Parker who retained his services: "Robert Parker requested from TWAS to assist Jay Miller in coordinating his trips in areas such as hotel bookings, local transportation, and especially in matters of translation and interpretation."
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Re: Dr. Big J is gone from WA?

Post #200  Postby Peter Chiu » December 10th 2011, 11:31am

WvanGorp wrote:One interesting element is who brought Campo onboard as a handler (I can't imagine Galloni or Schildknecht need handlers). One ITB'er posted on FaceBook that it was not Miller who wanted Pancho involved, but Parker himself. Pancho, in his denial of the accusations, states that it was Parker who retained his services: "Robert Parker requested from TWAS to assist Jay Miller in coordinating his trips in areas such as hotel bookings, local transportation, and especially in matters of translation and interpretation."



.......Robert Parker requested from TWAS to assist Jay Miller......




Yes....it is reported here too. How about checking out paragraph 2 of the article in this link : ( The Wine Cellar - Inside - Jeff Leve ? )

http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/201 ... my-miller/

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