Is ripeness better (more acceptable) in darker fruits?

I think so. I find I like a bit more in wines like Cabernet or Nebbiolo but not so much in the more red fruited wines I seem to enjoy, like Pinot Noir. I think it’s the higher toned ripeness I feel it higher on my palate/nose turned to a feel rather than flavor plus the sweetness I find associated associated is bothersome whereas not so much with the former. Not so much I say. Lol

Cheers.

Are you asking about whether certain grapes carry ripeness better than others? I associate darker fruits with riper flavors, so your question as asked seems to me a bit nonsensical.

I do think I’m a bit more tolerant of ripeness in some grapes, such as Cabernet, than I am with Pinot Noir, though generally speaking, I prefer less ripeness in all of the wines I consume. I’ve seen you post notes on a couple Pinots that you’ve liked that have been on the riper side for my palate (not a criticism), but if you enjoy it, that’s all that matters.

Corey, I think you grabbed my thinking on this. I think I tend to like lighter bodied Pinot Noir that have little to no ripeness whatsoever but that’s not to say I can’t enjoy a riper one as well, although when it becomes more toward the extreme, I run for the hills.
Cheers.

Maybe you should look for green harvest pinots.

Yeah, I should have said just the right amount of ripeness.
Good catch.

While it’s far from exact, I agree with your point in broad terms.

If you’re going to say “pick a wine from the riper side of the spectrum,” I’d definitely think more of a zin, syrah, petite sirah, malbec, etc than a pinot.

… or red Burgs vintage 1994 … would fit perfectly your intentions of low ripeness …

I think it’s fine in both but with red very ripe fruit needs more acidity than black fruit.

Not sure how you’d get high acidity with overripe red fruit though. Italy seems able to manage it, at times.

Water / acid addition

What sort of acid does one add?

I’ve never thought of it this way, but yes I agree.

That’s why I can enjoy a Mike Smith cab, but not so much a Loring PN. Even though both are well made, I don’t like the lush ripe thing in PN.

I could extend this to whites pretty easily too.

The word “ripe” or “ripeness” to me is bothersome. What does it mean? Over-ripe, under-ripe. One person’s trash is another person’s treasure.

Except for me, I’d go the opposite way on whites. If I’m ordering “more ripe within the varietal” whites, I’d sooner do it with leaner grapes sauv blanc or pinot grigio than with chardonnay, riesling or roussanne.

Barry you add tartaric acid - which is the predominant acid in grapes.

Usually titratable acidity (tartaric + others) is 6-8 g/L. But if acid is too low (and possibly pH is too high - as with very ripe fruit) tartaric acid is added. This is best done after crush but before fermentation so the acid “integrates” better, though it can be done later too.

Often very ripe must is diluted with water to bring Brix into a reasonable range, and the dilution is done with water with tartaric acid.

Besides improving taste (adding backbone), adding acid lowers pH - which in turn reduces the level of SO2 required.

I’ve noticed with some wines the acid addition is noticeable - ranging from etch your teeth to a somewhat noticeable acid edge. Age seems to help this but balance is easier if the acid add is moderate, IMO.

No more so than a hundred other relative measures we all use every day. Hot or cold? Tall or short? Liberal or conservative?

It’s all just communication.

Yep. And assessment according to one’s own values.

Fantastically informative Kim! Thanks! I love understanding this better. As I see it, what’s missing in too many ‘new world’ wines is good acidity. This is changing somewhat recently though.

I just wondered how a winemaker could get big fruit flavor while ensuring the acidity keeps up with it to balance the wine.

Fantastically informative Kim! Thanks! I love understanding this better. As I see it, what’s missing in too many ‘new world’ wines is good acidity. This is changing somewhat recently though.

Based on how many years and what examples?

The original post didn’t make any subjective statements about “too much” or “too little” ripeness, just more or less ripeness.

I don’t think it’s particularly troubling to observe that you can have grape X be more or less ripe, or that you could be in the riper or less ripe portion of the spectrum among commercial wines made from grape X.

Am I misunderstanding your comment? If so, I apologize, and please help me understand better

As a general statement, I’d say red to black fruit is a factor of ripeness, rather than variety. There are plenty of dark PNs, plenty of red Cabs. But, if you to group varieties by color intensity, Neb would be on the lighter side. When you see darker Nebs, factors may include: sites that lead to thicker skins, late picking, and “cellar stuff”.