TN: Rougeard hype and other Loire - a generalized thought.

2 beauties from Clos Rougeard that are years away from greatness but, at a dinner early this week, were distinctively more complete and structurally pleasant than the already very good drinkers in 1985 Breton “Perrieres”, 1989 and 1990 Olga Raffault “Picasses”, among others.

2007 Rougeard.jpeg

Hard to compare 1985-1990 to 2007. That’s almost 20 years. Rougeard is also a riper and less funky style than either of the others, which I would expect to be relatively lean by comparison. Would love to see your detailed notes…

I think Noah has this right. I’ve had all of these wines, they are not nor ever will be the same. Compared the 2007 Le Picasses and you will see the difference. I love Raffault and Breton immensely, but they are leaner in texture and materials. Utterly classic. Had a 2014 Breton Beaumont last night, lovely stuff. Rougeard is simply another dimension. Like comparing a solid Sauternes to a d’Yquem.

There’s a lot of variability in older Olgas, but both of these drank well. But I agree with Ramon that the Rougeards showed a lot more class and refinement. They deserve the noticeable premium they formerly received over other Loire reds, though the current premium is a bit crazy.

Ramon organized a Loire dinner, and a nice group of 6 gathered at Left Bank in the West Village.
Service was friendly and efficient

We started with some whites (and a couple of salumi/cheese plates)

2006 Pascal Cotat “Les Monts Damnes” Sancerre
Ripe and full, grapefruit and lemon peel, but really about the wet rocks. A-/B+

2008 Chidaine “Le Bouchet” Vouvray
I’m a Chidaine fan but not sure I’ve run across this bottling before. I’d call it on borderline between sec-tendre and demi-sec. Ripe apples, pineapple, a little floral. B

My starter was highlight of meal- grilled octopus w/fennel, artichoke & aioli

2010 Huet Petillant Vouvray
Brisk and frisky, apples and quince, just a hint of sourdough, ready to go. B+

2000 Ch. De Hureau “Lisagathe” Saumur-Champigny
Still some good red fruit, some cocoa, but comes across as a little flat. A couple times I thought I got a hint of corkiness on the palate, but not there on nose, which for me is much more sensitive to TCA, so don’t think it was corked. B-

1985 Breton “Perrieres” Bourgueil
I double-decanted in afternoon, some green tobacco leaf aromas immediately convinced me this would not be a wine to convince a Loire-red-hater (and indeed I think our waiter didn’t care for). Raspberry and cassis, earth, a greenness that I found pleasant in a raw tobacco/ herbal way, but one person found asparagusy. B+/A-

We shared two orders of pasta for a little taste- I especially liked the gnocchi with fiddleheads, but the tagliatelle with (a very light) Bolognese was good too.

1989 Olga Raffault “Les Picasses” Chinon
This can be variable but this was a good bottle. Black cherry, smoke, coffee, and leather, rustic but I enjoy. B+

1990 Olga Raffault “Les Picasses” Chinon
Riper but not roasted, just a hint of barnyard, still rustic but more polished/smoother than the 1989. B+

For my main I had roast chicken with ramps and potatoes
2007 Rougeard “Les Clos” Saumur-Champigny
Lovely wine, darker fruit framed with cigarbox and an almost Rhone-y smoked meat, full and long. A-

2007 Rougeard “Les Poyeaux” Saumur-Champigny
Smoky, pure, refined, with cassis, black cherry, and sandalwood. A-

2014 Fosse-Seche “Eolithe” Saumur
Apparently billed in a retail offer as a Rougeard slayer, so served blind next to them. Tough duty. This was a really nice young Cab Franc - spicy, full, and fresh. B+

On to some dessert wines
1997 Jo Pithon Coteaux du Layon
Very dark color, apricot and orange peel, the least Chenin-y of the group, tastes like Sauternes laced with toffee. B

1998 Baumard Quarts de Chaume
Much lighter color, tropical, good acids. B+/B

1997 Pierre-Bise Quarts de Chaume (500 ml)
Also dark, marmalade and wax, a wooly note, but could use more acid. B

Fun night with an excellent crowd

Grade disclaimer: I’m a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn’t drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

Eolithe as a Rougeard-slayer? That would be awesome. I love Eolithe and it’s great QPR, and in a -slightly- fuller style than Raffault. Prolly not at the same level though.

I hate to say it, but if you’re really looking for a Rougeard-slayer you might have to go to St. Emilion and one of the more CF-based Bordeaux… now -that- would be a fun comparison blind…

Thanks for the notes, Dale. They pretty much say what I would have tried to say.



This is not that much different from what I summarized in my TN above. If Loire Valley was the NBA these days, then it’s the (L)Eastern Conference with a major standout, Rougeard, in the Cleveland Cavaliers.



I agree that it’s not appropriate to compare wines with vintage differences, but even with the age differences, it’s obvious that the very young Rougeards showed more completeness. To illustrate further, over the last 2 years at various occasions, I’ve had Rougeard Poyeux from vintages ‘95 to ‘99. I’ve also had smatterings of other Loire Cab Franc from similar vintages that I was impressed with (Baudry, Filliatreau, C-Duthel, Olga, are some that I can recall). But even then, what’s memorable to me were that the Rougeards were at least heads, sometimes including shoulders, above the same vintage Loire reds.



Good/fun idea, but other than Cheval Blanc, I can’t think of other Right Bank Bordeaux that has similar 100% Cab Franc as Rougeard.

Cheval Blanc is only about 45-55% CF in any given year. Lafleur is higher, and Le Dome, Trottevielle, Jean Faure can be as well but vary significantly from vintage to vintage. Figeac has a relatively high percentage but nowhere near 100%.

Clos La Madeleine is high in CF and Cheval Blanc’s second wine La Petite Cheval, is in the 80-something% range. There are a few others, supposedly, that are 100% CF , but I have not had them.

Like Noah, and perhaps you, I love Bordeaux with heavy dollops of CF. Think Cheval Blanc, Carmes Haut Brion. Trottevieille has a 100% CF cuvée but it’s pretty rare, would love to try it.

Had a 2014 Roche Neuves Les Memories with 113 year old vines last night, very solid and built for age.

Given (and reminded by) recent TNs about being very Cab Franc-like, then, I’d suggest including a Sociando Mallet in any Bdx-Loire blind tasting.

I love 89 Raffault Pic. It is my default ‘impress a non wine person to older, affordable, non mainstream wine’ choice. I’ve opened probably half a dozen bottles over the last few years and it is more consistent than the 85 and generally better than the 90.

With that being said, in terms of depth, pitch, and quality of expression, the rougeards that proceeded them just mopped the floor with them.

Does this make me love Raffault less? No. Does it make me respect Rougeard more? Kinda…

The Les Memoires has me super intrigued. How would you compare it stylistically to the classics mentioned in this thread (Raffault, Breton, Rougeard etc)?

Adam -

I’ve only had this wine twice, the 2014 and the 2013. I do have other notes scattered on this site for the Clos L’Echlier, Franc de Pied, etc. These are generally very solid wines, but the price points for a Loire CF are tough, from $50-$70. I have no doubt that the vineyard materials are there, and it is starting to show in this Les Memoires. It is a richer wine than what you will find from Breton or Raffault, less savory and complex than Rougeard in a comparable year. Thierry is new to some of these incredible vineyards, so worth watching, sampling and perhaps buying. I had decided to skip 2015, but this 2014 has me rethinking. Still, $70 is tough. That’s almost two Baudry Croix Boissee, which is a better, more complex wine (but admittedly, also very different). There is something bright about Franc de Pied that gets me very time.

Thanks for good viewpoints, Robert.

I wonder if that 2014 Baudry C-Boissee red will ever show up in retail stores? Or, did I already miss it?