TN: Moutard Grand Cuvee NV (Scroll Down the Thread)

Here’s an easy one for champagne boffins.

Moutard Grand Cuvee NV
3 years on lees
Disgorge [edit] Dec 2015
What is the base vintage?
I calculate 2011 (say it’s not true!)
Am I correct?

Thanks.

Probably 2011. Not a huge issue for an NV. It’s not a disaster, despite your (I assume an artifact of autocorrect) use of discouraged in place of disgorged.

Thanks David. Don’t you just love autocorrect

I am discouraged by 2011, though

Then just drink up.

James,

It is probably 2011, but it could also be 2010 or even 2012. The (3) years on the lees statement should be taken as meaning that on average it is aged on the lees for 3-4 years. It could be a little less or it could be over a year more.

I disagree. I tasted quite a few seriously underperforming NVs with 2011 bases when they were being released. Some were downright bad, and from excellent producers.

Bah. I completely disagree with you.

I think people have gotten hyper-critical of NV Champagnes, trying to only score the bottles from top-tier vintage years.

A couple quick comments on the 2011 base vintage:

• many of the wines with this base came across as quite a bit tart, green, under ripe (call it what you will) upon release; this was especially true for producers who don’t have a huge stock of reserve wines to work with and who release their NVs very young.

• time has seen the wines soften up and round off; in other words they are better now than many were on release and I think they will continue to get better; they won’t turn into greatness, but age helps them (both lees aging and post-disgorgement aging)

• there are some nice 2011s, but in general it is a lesser year for NVs than what came before and after. I actually like many 2011s better than 2010s and the year had more potential if you harvested grapes at full ripeness, but, for NVs, 2010 was helped out by reserves from 2009 and 2008. 2011 NVs that also have a lot of 2010 in them are not going to be the greatest.

Thanks Brad! With Moutard being a grower and all fruit being hand picked it has as good a chance as any to be ripe.

What difference would being 100% pinot make?

I will open a bottle soon and report back.

James,

While this really doesn’t matter in the big picture, I do want to point out that all grapes in Champagne are hand picked and Moutard isn’t a grower (they are a negociant). That said, in the big picture of Champagne, small growers are actually more likely to pick too soon and have under ripe grapes than ripe ones. We don’t see most of this as most of the growers who make their own Champagne and are exported around the world are the good ones, but they represent only about 2% of everyone who grows grapes in Champagne.

What Moutard has going for it is that it is in the Aube where the grapes tend to get riper and Pinot Noir excels best. I like Moutard’s wines and think they are often very fruity though not the most complex. I would open it and see what you think.

Enjoy and let us know how it is!

*Edited to make the last sentence in the first paragraph flow better

Well, I’ve never paid much attention to base vintages before that, and I definitely did not expect the results I found in those wines. I have no plan to try to focus only on the best base years, nor have I ever done so. I’m talking about small growers whose base year makes up a large percentage of the blend. I find it odd that you’d disagree so strongly without even knowing if you’ve tasted the same wines, and assume I have some kind of agenda.

Somehow Cedric Bouchard’s Val Vilaine 2011 was fantastic, so it’s far from everything. Brad did comment on the Aube specifically.

I disagree because I have tasted and drank a large number of 2011 base NV wines, and while they are by no means my favorites, I have not had any from a competent producer that I would call “bad.” Uninspiring perhaps. Uninteresting even, but not “bad.”

Bad is a very strong term.

Pierre Peters was bad.

David,

While I agree the 2011 base isn’t my favorite Peters NV, it is still a good wine and will improve. I’ve also learned that calling a Peters NV wine bad in its youth makes you a fool in the long run and I have been made a fool multiple times. This wine cellars beautifully and almost always improves - especially in the releases that may be lacking a bit when young.

July 2016 disgorged. 2012 base maybe?

Bump

OK. Swapped my bottles for ones disgorged July 2016 (2012 base?) Opened one today.

TN.
Pale yellow. No green tint. Stale (oxidised?) car exhaust fume aromas. Persistent, strong effervescence. Flat, oxidised flavours at first. With time, still a little stale. Red apples, mostly, possibly a little white peach. Citrus on the medium-at-best finish. No sign of oak. Little sign of ageing on lees. Overall - not bad but kind of stunted. Heat affected (my hunch)? Poor cork? Deliberate oxidative style?

…With more time, a grapefruit flavour has emerged and extends to the finish which is now medium plus, maybe you could say long. Body and flavour is medium plus, too. The only negative is that there isn’t much aroma.

Bump

I’m now thinking it may be corked. I’ll probably open a second to double check.