Looking to Add French and Italian Wine to my Cellar (beginner!)

This topic may have been done before but I could not seem to find it.

I am looking to diversify my wine cellar, currently it is about 80% WA wine, with the rest being Cali Cabs and Oregon Pinots. I have tasted some Old World wines, but do not really know where to begin when it comes to buying.

I am really looking to know what the best red wines (current vintages only - I want to age them myself) are from the certain regions/sub regions (preferably ones that are assessable in the US). Obviously price will be a factor when it comes to purchasing, but I’d like to keep that aside for now and just see what people think are the best wines! I am particularly interested in the following:

Bordeaux
Burgandy
Beaujolais
Rhone
-Côte-Rôtie
-Cornas
-Hermitage
-Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Italy
-Barolo
-Brunello

Thanks for the help!

Holy crap … you are going to get answers that are all over the place, including many posts telling you that your question is impossible to answer without more information.

I’ll snag some low-hanging fruit: for Beaujolais: Foillard - Morgon “Cote du Py”

Should be about $35.

I’m not sure where to start with any of the others.

Awesome, thanks for the Beaujolais suggestion! I’ll be sure to look for it.

As the title says, I am a beginner when it comes to Old World wine, so I am looking for any and all suggestions!

The answer really depends on your tastes. What do you like most in the wines you do have?

Obviously if you like Syrah and Grenache look to the Rhone wines. You should be able to pick up good wines for in the $30 price range and excellent wines for in the $100 range. These wines are generally approachable young but can age a long time.

If you prefer Cab and Merlot Bordeaux is the place. Again good entry level wines for $30 but the excellent Bordeaux’s will likely be $100++ Most Bordeaux improves with cellar time so you might want to source some bottles from earlier vintages like 2000 or 2005.

Pinot and Chardonnay are the specialties in Burgundy but I am not the one to offer advise here.

Nick - it might be helpful to post some of your favorite wines in your cellar now so that we could get a sense of your taste. Might help people hone in on what is a very broad topic.

Nick, dont forget the bubbles. If you dont have an aversion to them, I would look for Champagne; they have some of the best values in top regions in France. You can get top producers from grand cru vineyards for less than $50. Champagne due to low pH, can age well and is very versatile with food. Makes your cellar look complete!

It would be easy to suggest an impressive cellar of classic wines - that you might not like at all!

There is sense in sampling some wines to get a feel for style, and for this I would say lean towards the value but typical end of the market. No sense in buying the grandest names. Treat these as wines you probably won’t age very long, but will be the forerunners of wines that you will age.

Where to start:

France

Definitely get a feel of Bordeaux ‘right bank’ vs. ‘left bank’. For the former, try one of the richer St Emilions against the generally more classical (but user-friendly) Pomerols. This will be a useful pointer to future purchases. For the latter, much more choice, but avoid shooting for the grandest, as some more modest wines will give you a good feel based on a relatively young wine. Maybe a wine from Margaux the region (not the Chateau) - personally I’ve had decent success for modest money e.g. Château Deyrem Valentin.

Chateauneuf du Pape is an interesting place to start for the Rhone, not least through the heated recent discussion here (I think the thread started by A. So would be interesting to read). Fundamentally this area could give you a really good stylistic checkpoint. If you like the richer end of Cha… (I’m too lazy : C9dP) then not much point in exploring Cornas, St Joseph or Cote Rotie yet, but they may come later, or earlier if you prefer one of the more traditional C9dPs. Don’t ignore Gigondas for a taster bottle either, and these are rarely at the lush end of the scale, but often combine good vibrant fruit and good grip. Get some ideas of producers/wines from that thread.

Burgundy. I’ll defer to others here. It’s an expensive region, so easy to blow a lot of money very unwisely. Personally I’d defer this one until you’ve explored other regions.

Beaujolais might be a shock to the system and well worth trying before buying anything. Prices are still very fair, but it might not be love at first sip. Indeed I think your head has to be in the right place to start to enjoy Beaujolais, as it may be very different to wines you know & love, hence going in with a very open mind will help.

Don’t ignore Southern France: Provence, Languedoc etc. and many would make more natural entry points for a palate more attuned to new world winemaking. Plenty of these perform rather well in the cellar.

Italy
Barolo (and Barbaresco) can again be a style you might not ‘get’ immediately (or ever). Try a few before buying any volume, and be aware that on release there is often good fruit partially obscuring firm tannins, but that they can shut down as the vibrancy of the fruit drops away. Assuming you can find a bottle of Produttori del Barbaresco (standard Barbaresco bottling with the emblem of the tower) open it with roast beef or lamb (or a steak) so you have something to fight the tannins. It’s a good benchmark wine, true to the region and should be easy enough to get hold of.

Brunello: I reckon a more promising entry point for a new world palate, FWIW I find this denomination typically less enjoyable than Vino Nobile di Montepulciano & Chianti, but then I prefer the grip in those wines. Different strokes for different folks, with more people preferring Brunello & so it costs more.

Other wines:
Super-Tuscans might be derided here, but they are a great entry point for someone used to Cali Cabs etc. They will taste different to what you’ve experienced and (IMO) the good ones do have a sense of being ‘Italian’ though I really can’t put that into words.

Valpolicella / Amarone. Essentially the same grapes, but the latter has significantly more grape drying, which really turns the dial up to 11. For many people Amarone is one of the first wines to make them go ‘wow!’ because the intensity can be seriously impressive. Valpolicella still has stronger (slightly fresher) fruit and a good degree of richness, but you’ll get a touch of bitterness with (usually) good acidity. The comparison of both from the same producer can be interesting. If you see a Valpolicella ripasso, this is likely to be aiming for the middle ground between the two, but styles do vary. For a cheap widely available wine, consider Allegrini Palazzo della Torre or Masi Campofiorin. IMO neither is a great wine, but both give a sense of what the wine style is about and should be easy to find & taste without meaningful cellar time.

There are a huge amount of wine styles in the two countries, enough to satisfy a lifetime, and we’ve not even mentioned Portugal or Spain.

I will re-iterate the earlier advice though - don’t fill up the cellar until you’ve sampled ~ 2-3 bottles from that region and are excited by them. Any fool can ‘curate’ a cellar of renowned classics (just pay a visit to the Peck wine shop in the basement of the famed food store in Milano to see this achieved), but the intelligent person collects a cellar with wines that personally interest them.

regards
Ian

Wow, thank you for the great detailed response!

I have been trying a few wines with friends from the different locations I have mentioned, and you are right, Beaujolais was a definite shock the first go around, but then I tried again awhile back (a $15 bottle from Costco) and liked that different style. I have also had a few Barolo’s and Brunello’s and loved them. My palate (or lack there of!!) seems to be all over the place depending on my mood, sometimes I like the big and bold Syrahs and sometimes I like the elegant and refined ones. I tend to gravitate to Cabs rather than Merlots.

I also tend to like Syrah and Grenache especially from the rocks (which is why I included Chateauneuf du Pape), but that doesn’t mean I don’t like a good Cab, because I certainly do. I also love Pinot’s but being in WA I do not try those as often as the Syrahs and Cabs. For a point of reference, Gramercy, Long Shadows, Mark Ryan, Buty, Cayuse, Fidelitas, Leonetti are some of my favorite wineries from WA.

As you mentioned about trying, I never buy a large quantity until I have tried it! So that is basically what I am trying to do, find some wines that people recommend and buy one to try it before going crazy! I also, like to stop at Costco and pick a random bottle to see if I like it!

Bordeaux - let us say Haut Brion - price tag likely over $500
Burgundy - never had it but by reputation Romanee Conti - price tag likely $10,000

Unless you are buying a lot of Screaming Eagle and Harlan from California, are you really looking for the absolute best wines?

I really recommend looking at the threads like the following as a good way to start:

So, what you are looking for is assessable balla wines, right? Well there are a few things to consider. Buy only what you have tasted for yourself and that you have determined that you like. Of course this could cost you thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours tracking down and obtaining the wines. Just because a lot of people here like something doesn’t mean that you will. So consider it money and time well invested. Forget about professional critics because they are little more than robo-tasters looking to make a buck and generally have a poor use of language when it comes to describing wine profiles. Take that hundred dollars that you would spend on a subscription and buy a bottle of something so you know for sure if that particular wine is one that you like. And this is the most important thing to remember: never, but never, buy a wine because of a high point score. Only a mindless lemming would be duped into thinking that a numerical score could be of any value when considering a wine purchase. So, doing it on your own may take years if not decades but at the end, you will know firsthand what it is that you like. Best of luck!

Don’t forget Petrus champagne.gif

Find a tasting group. Taste LOTS and LOTS of wines. Start to create a cellar. Assemble far more wines than is reasonable. Shift your palate after a few years. Look at your full cellar in disgust. Rinse. Repeat. :wink:

Awesome advice! I don’t pay any attention to scores, so I am safe there!

I am mostly looking for what people recommend from each of the regions I am interested in since I have no clue about the wineries from over there. I’m happy to do the tastings and research, and am in no rush to start adding wine to the cellar.

what’s your price range you’re looking at nick. That’s the best way to give recommendations

Lets cap the price at $120 or so.

Left Bank Bordeaux:
Grand Puy Lacoste
Leoville Barton
Pichon Baron
Rauzan-Segla

Chandon de Briailles Ile des Vergelesses at about 50 bucks

Cool, that’s absolutely normal [basic-smile.gif]
Never ever doubt your palate - no-one has a bad palate (barring illness/medication etc.). We may sometimes lack the means to express what it is we like & why, but that is different.

[basic-smile.gif]

Look at Tom Hill, for someone whose been tasting wine for many decades, yet still has the mindset to grab an unusual bottle and take interest in the new experience.


regards
Ian

Awesome, thank you. Will look for one to try!

Thank you for the suggestions, I have been reading up on them and they all sound very nice!