TN: Some Unusual Wines...(long/boring)

We tried last night (4/19/17) Some Unusual Wines:

1. Kocjancic Rado Vitovska DOC: Carso-Kras (13%; www.RadoKocjancic.Eu) Kroglje/Dolina/Carso 2013: Med.light yellow
   color; rather strange cat pee/kitty litter box/herbal/pungent/fume maybe slight phenolic rather stony/mineral/
   chalky bit bizarre nose; rather tart/lean/metallic quite pungent/herbal/kitty litter box/smokey/fume rather
   stony/mineral flavor; very long very tart/tangy/metallic pungent/cat litter box/smokey/fume/SauvBlanc rather
   stony/mineral finish; lots of kitty litter box/SauvBlanc/herbal/cat pee/pungent character but a rather
   interesting wine. $32.00 (WE)

2. Skerk Vitovska IGP: VeneziaGiulia (12%; L1; OliverMcCrumWines) Prepotto 2012: Med.light gold color; some
   phenolic/resiny/cider/earthy light honeyed/floral earthy/mineral quite complex nose; quite tart/tangy rather
   tannic/bitter/astringent some honeyed/honeycomb earthy/mineral stony/little fruit rather phenolic/resiny complex
   flavor w/ some hard tannins; very long strong phenolic/resiny quite tart/austere light honeycomb finish w/ some
   astringent/bitey tannins; shows less fruit & more phenolic character than the '13; no signs of oxidation and
   a classic skin-contact white. $33.00 (VintBerk)

3. Skerk Vitovska IGP: VeneziaGiulia (12.5%; L1) 2013: Med.gold color; less phenolic/rasiny rather honeyed/graham
   cracker/angel food cake light floral/smokey quite exotic complex nose; lightly tart/tangy light phenolic/resiny
   rather honeyed/honeycomb/graham cracker some stony/earthy exotic flavor w/ light brisk tannins; very long
   lightly phenolic/resiny/cider earthy/honeycomb/graham cracker finish w/ light tannins; less phenolic and more
   exotic than the '12; a lovely skin-contact white at very good price. $33.00 (VintBerk)

4. Skerk Malvazija IGP: VeneziaGiulia (12%; L1) 2013: Med.gold color; some fragrant/Malvasia rather phenolic/
   resiny/skin-contact bit orangey/honeyed lovely complex nose; rather tart/austere light floral/Malvasia/muscatty
   some phenolic/resiny bit honeyed/honeycomb/orangey light smokey/earthy very interesting complex flavor w/ light
   bitey tannins; very long rather tart/austere fairly phenolic/scik-contact/resiny some floral/Malvasia/honeycomb/
   orangey exotic finish w/ light bitey tannins; more fruit & perfume than the Vitovskas. $31.00 (VintBerk)

5. Skerk Ograde Bianco IGP: VeneziaGiulia (25% Vitovska/Malvasia/Sauvignon/PinotGrigio; 13$; L1) 2013: Med.dark
   gold/burnished bronze/orange color; very exotic floral/orangey/tangerine some skin-contact/phenolic/resiny
   rather honeyed/honeycomb very exotic complex nose; fairly tart/austere/bit tannic rather orangey/tangerine/
   honeyed/honeycomb some phenolic/resiny fairly rich very exotic complex flavor w/ light tannic bite; very long/
   lingering honeycomb/orangey/tangerine some phenolic/resiny complex/exotic finish w/ light tannic bite; a
   beautiful skin-contact exotic white. $37.50 (VintBerk)

6. Palmina Arneis “Little Rascal” HoneaVnyd/SantaYnezVlly (13.5%; www. PalminaWines.com) Lompoc 2015: Light gold
   color; quite perfumed/aromatic very floral/fennel/spicy bit apple blossom/mango light stony/mineral/flinty
   quite attractive nose; quite tart/lean/austere light floral/apple blossom/fennel/spicy/pear/mango bit quiet/
   low-key flavor; very long tart/austere fennel/spicy/floral rather stony/mineral/chalky lovely finish; the
   stony/chalky speaks of Piemonte Arneis; a quiet/restrained lovely expression of Arneis. Great price at
   $19.00 (WH)

7. Arnot-Roberts OldVine WW HeinsteinVnyd/SonomaVlly (13.5%; 4 brls; Sylvaner/Riesling + other stuff;
   63 yr old vnyd, dry-farmed; 3 brls) 2015: Light yellow color; rather fragrant floral/mango/pineapple/spicy/R
   rather old-timey Calif R/piney quite interesting nose; quite tart/lean/acidic dry floral/mango/spicy bit tangy
   fairly rich old-timey Calif R/piney flavor; very long/lingering quite tart/lean/austere bit metallic rather R/
   floral/pineapple/mango old-timey/piney finish; quite an interesting old-timey Calif R/Sylvaner much like the
   Sebastiani’s of old; bit pricey at $35.00

8. Arnot-Roberts RibollaGialla VareVnyd/NapaVlly (12.2%; 3 brls; 17 yr old vines, cuttings from Gravner; 2 brls)
   2015: Med.light yellow color; very spicy/peppery/orangey/RG bit SO2/pungent very light phenolic/resiny quite
   aromatic nose; quite tart/lean/austere light spicy/RG/orangey light phenolic/skin-contact some stony/earthy
   flavor; med. light phenolic/skin-contact/bitey/tannic very light orangey/RG/spicy some earthy/stony finish
   w/ light tannins; a rather pleasant nose but pretty lean/tight/austere on palate and needs age; clearly a
   modest amount of skin-contact. $40.00

9. Ryme RibollaGialla VareVnyd/NapaVlly (12.8%; www.RymeCellars.com) Geyserville 2014: Med.gold color; beautiful
   ripe mango/orange/floral/very spicy ripe peach very aromatic/perfumed nose; lightly tart very perfumed/mango/
   orange/floral/ripe peach very light phenolic/resiny/tannic rather complex very spicy flavor w/ very light
   tannins; very long/lingering ripe peach/mango/orange/floral/very spicy very slight phenolic/resiny complex
   finish w/ very light tannic bite; very much like a Friuli RG, maybe even better; impressive rendition of RG.
   $49.00

10. Arnot-Roberts Trousseau NorthCoast (12.5%; 1 foudre/5 puncheons/6 brls; LuchsingerVnyd/ClearLake +
    BartolomeiVnyd/GreenVlly; whole-cluster frmtd; U/U) 2016: Very light bit bricked cloudy color; quite earthy/
    dusty/OV strong strawberry/cranberry/Kool-Aid/Trousseau quite perfumed/spicy nose; bit tart/tangy light rather
    earthy/dusty/OV/Trousseau perfumed/strawberry/cranberry flaver w/ very light tannins; very long/lingering
    dry light tart/tangy/metallic strong spicy/strawberry/cranberry/KoolAid/spicy finish w/ light brisk tannins;
    very much the profile of a Jura Trousseau but more bright/lively fruit; quite a nice light-weight red. $30.00

11. Skerk Teran/Teranno (15%; L1) 2011: Very dark/near black color; rather earthy/dusty/OV bit alcoholic strong
    ripe/Refosco/blackberry/black cherry cola almost Syrah-like RCCola/DrPepper/spicy loads of ripe fruit beautiful
    complex nose; bit soft very rich/lush black cherry cola/RCCola/Refosk/boysenberry/ripe some earthy/dusty/OV
    slight pencilly/oak flavor w/ some hard/ripe tannins; very long/lingering rich/lush/ripe very strong Refosk/
    black cherry cola/boysenberry/blackberry some earthy/dusty/OV finish w/ ample soft/ripe tannins; a big Terrano
    that will go another 10 yrs; almost a Sforzato Teran; one of the best Terans I’ve had. $35.00 (VintBerk)

12. Skerk Teran/Teranno (11.5%; L1) 2013: Very dark color; rather rustic/coarse some black cherry cola/Refosk slight
    unclean/bretty/leathery some earthy/dusty slightly funky nose; quite tart/lean/austere slight funky/bretty/
    unclean light black cherry cola/RCCola/Refosk rather earthy/dusty flavor w/ some hard/rough tannins; long some
    bretty/unclean/rustic/rough some black cherry cola/Refosk fairly earthy/dusty finish w/ some hard/rough tannins;
    a rather hard/austere/rustic wine than needs age but the brett may worsen. $35.00 (VintBerk)

13. Stoka Izbrani Teran (11.9%; www.Stoka.Si; www.BlueDanube.com) Primoz & Tadej Stoka/Krajna/Slovenia 2013: Very
    dark color; very classic Refosco/blackberry/black cherry cola/DrPepper rather earthy/dusty/OV bit funky/coarse/
    earthy/rustic nose; quite sour some black cherry cola/blackberry/Refosco tart/tangy fairly earthy/dusty/OV
    somewhat coarse/rustic/rough flavor w/ ample hard/coarse tannins; very long tart/tangy/tannic/metallic quite
    sour rough/rustic some black cherry/black cherry cola/blackberry/Refosco finish w/ ample rough/coarse tannins;
    speaks strongly of Teran/Refosco but rather on the coarse/rustic side and a sourness that spreads across the
    palate; probably made by “natural” winemaking techniques; not a bad Teran but would like a bit more polish
    to it. Fairly priced at $25.00 (BergA)

More alternative facts from TheBloodyPulpit:

1. Skerk: The SandiSkerk wines are imported by OliverMcCrum on the WestCoast. Oliver suggested I try them some
   3-4 yrs ago, I did, and I loved them. Since then, I’ve been a huge fan of them. Late last year, Oliver got in
   the latest release of Sandi’s wines. He made arrangements w/ Dan to order them thru Vintage Berkeley,
   which I did. These wines are those I ordered last December.
   Oliver’s WebSite has a nice writeup on SandiSkerk (http://omwines.com/skerk/). There is also a particularly
   good writeup on why Sandi does not characterize his whites as “orange” wines
   (http://omwines.com/blog?tag=Orange%20Wine0) because they have no oxidative character like the Gravner/Radikon
   paradigm.
   When I was visiting Friuli in Oct’15, Oliver greased the skids for us to do w/ Sandi. One of the best visits
   we did on that trip. He is located near Prepotto, about half a km from the Slovene border in what is called
   the Carso/Kras/Karst region, just north of Trieste. The Karst is a large limestone plateau that extends far into
   Slovenia. It is riddled w/ caves and rivers flowing underground into the Adriatica. Sandi’s cellar was dynamited
   out of this limestone. During this excavation, they hit upon a deep whole (about 4’ in diameter) that has not
   been fully explored and extends downwards to an unknown depth. The cool/cold air venting from this hole provides
   natural cooling for the cellar. It’s an absolutely beautiful area.
   The Skerks are some of the most skillfully-made skin-contact whites. They don’t show a lot of fruit, ample
   skin-contact/phenolic character and can be a bit painful to taste on their own. They badly need food with them
   to tone down the austere character they have. They’re not everyone’s cup o’ tea.

2. Vitovska: This is a variety indigeneous to the Karst/Caarso of Friuli/Slovenia. It is a natural cross of
   ProseccoTondo (a.k.a. Glera) X Malvasia Bianca Lunga. This latter grape is most common to Tuscany and originates
   on the Dalmatian Coast of Croatia, where it is known as Marastina.
   Most all the Vitovska’s I’ve tried have been made w/ skin-contact, so the varietal character tends to be
   dominated by the skin-contact/phenolic/resiny character. So I don’t have good handle on what the varietal character
   of Vitovska is. The Kocjancic, located in the Brda region of Slovenia, did not have the color or phenolic character
   that suggested being made w/ skin-contact, so this may be what Vitovska varietal character is like. But it showed
   a distince pungent (stale) kitty litter box character that was as unpleasant as it sounds. Some like the SauvBlancs
   from Friuli/GoriskaBrda that I’ve tried. I need to take more data points.

3. RibollaGialla: I’m a big fan of Friuli RibollaGialla and attend the RibollaFest at the Mathiasson’s every Summer.
   Some are made in amphora/qvervi w/ heavy phenolic character like Gravner/Radikon. Some are made w/ no skin-contact,
   which allows the (not too distinctive) RG fruit to shine. And some are made w/ light skin-contact, which I find
   to be the most interesting expression of RG.
   Both of these appear to have a modest degree of skin-contact, the phenolic character is not very dominant.
   The A-R was obviously harvested earlier and was pretty tart/austere on the palate. I much preferred the Ryme,
   which showed a nice balance between phenolics and RG fruit. It is, I feel, a world-class RG. That is, I’ve been
   scolded, the equivalent of being the World Hopscotch Champion. Pffffttt…in my best Bill-the-Cat disdain, I say.

4. Teran: Teran or Terrano is an indigeous varity to the Karst/Carso/Kras Plateau of Italy/Slovenia. It is also
   found a bit on the Istrian Peninsula of Croatia. It is regarded as a member of the Refosco family, but a
   distinct variety from Refosco dal Peduncola Rosso. Some label Terrano as a bio-type of Refosco. All the Italian
   Terans I’ve tried, as did these two Skerks, remind me a lot of Friulian RdPR.
   When we visited Sandi in Oct’15, he related that they were no longer permitted to use the varietal name of
   Terrano in Italy. The Slovenes had managed to get the EU to rule that only Teran wines from the terra rosso
   of the Kras in Slovenia could bear that label. Understandably, the Italians didn’t much like that EU ruling.
   How that ruling has unfolded, I’ve not yet found out from Sandi.
   It seems strange that you can only use the name of a grape variety when it’s grown in a certain region of
   a single country. It’s not too unlike the power grab the folks in the Veneto did w/ Prosecco. Originally,
   sparkling wine made from the Glera grape near the village of Prosecco was called Prosecco. The folks in
   the Veneto had the Italian authorities rename the Glera grape as Prosecco, and only from their area. Thus
   anyone from the village of Prosecco near Trieste can only label the sparkler as Sparkling Glera, but not
   call it Prosecco. Doesn’t seem right.
   These two Skerk Terans were quite a contrast. I loved the '11 for its ripeness and huge fruit. The brett
   in the '13 was definitely there but not bad enough to ruin the wine for me. But it just seemed somewhat rough
   and coarse on the palate and could have benefited from more ripeness. Don’t know if the difference in the
   two was a winemaking choice or simple due to the weather.

5. Malvasia: The Malvasia grown in Friuli/Kras/Croatia is the Malvasia Istarka or Malvasia d’Istriana. Malvasia
   originated in Greece and made its way across the Adriatic to the Istrian peninsula, where it adapted well.
   The most prevalent Malvasia is Malvasia Bianca, which has a rather strong muscatty character. Malvasia
   Istriana has a much more subtle Muscat character and shows more minerality. It’s one of the best whites
   from Kras/Friuli/Croatia. It’s a variety they should be planting all up& down the coast of Calif.
   Tom

You have my full agreement on 4) Tom. Protectionism lives, though for this punter it’s made me much less likely to buy Prosecco.

This seems to be more your usual fare than something “unusual”.

Kitty litter doesn’t appeal to me too much as a nose or taste component. One of the oddest groupings of wines I’ve seen.

Great line up!

I’m a Friuli Ribolla Gialla nut, especiaally the skin macaerated ones. Love Skerk’s stuff too.

Number 9 sounds very interesting, didn’t know anyone was doing this style with RG in the states.

Good to see these wines on here.

Simon.

I would be interested to try one of these, but with weirdities priced at $30 - 50, it will be on someone else’s Grant or it won’t happen.

Ribolla-Gialla doesn’t have to be weird and doesn’t have to cost $30 - 50. I’ve enjoyed a few I think were in the ~$20 range.

Dan Kravitz

To me it is often a rather dull wine, unless it’s made with skin contact. I can’t speak for US examples as I haven’t tried them.

Price is always going to be an issue for small production wines that have to be exported halfway across the world.

I missed this one of Tom’s back in April

Very interesting lineup for sure. I do like what the Mathiassons are doing with the Vare fruit and this variety. Gravner is a whole 'nother beast, not always likeable but always interesting.

Simon–welcome to the board!

Mike

Not so sure I agree 100% w/ you here, Simon. RG, like Friulano, in Friuli can often be a bit on the simple/dull side. But there are
plenty of non-skin-contact ones I like quite a bit & are quite interesting.
You don’t see it as much in Friuli as in the USofA, but there are some that are made w/ skin-contact and then, after fermentation is
complete, raised in a reductive environment, w/o oxidative character. I distinguish those wine from the “orange” wines like
Gravner/Radikon that have an oxidative component. These skin-contact whites generally have a lower phenolic character than
the “orange” wines. And retain more of the primary fruit varietal character. I find a lot of these I really like.

Welcome to WB, Simon. Hope you’ll come back & contribute more of your experience.
Tom

Thanks Tom, I certainly will!

It is a tricky thing this oxidative character. I don’t personally find that it dominates in Gravner or Radikon’s wines. In fact I would go so far as to say that their wines (and others made in a similar way) should not be markedly oxidative. That isn’t the intention.

My own experience with Ribolla GIalla made with long skin maceration is thaht, with a good producer, it can have the most wonderful livliness and acidity. Have you tried any wines from La Castellada, Stekar, Il Carpino or Damijan Podversic?

So curious to try some of the US examples though! So far the only skin contact wines from the US I know are a few Californian ones such as Dirty & Rowdy, Scholium and Ambyth.

Yes & No, Simon. I’ve not had nor seen any of those other three. But last Oct, we stayed at Janko Stekar’s Agriturrismo and he did a tasting of all his current wines and some
from the library. I was mightly impressed. I’ll try to dredge up my TN’s.
Tasting at the Enoteca GoriskaBrda in Dobrovo, I had several Kabaj skin-contact whites I liked quite a lot. I took with me to Friuli a btl of the Forlorn-Hope RG skin-contact
and shared it there w/ Jean-Michel KMorell/Kabaj and he professed to like it.

Of the skin-contact whites raised in a reductive/non-oxidative manner, I like the Idlewild, Ryme, CowanCllrs, Forlorn-Hope.
Ryme makes a skin-contact Vermentino/His that is quite good.
SamBilbro/Idlewild makes an interesting Cortese like this. On the south-facing sides of the rows, where the Cortese gets lots of
sunshine & develops some pigmentation, he makes as a skin-contact white. On the north-facing side of the rows, it’s made conventionally/
direct-to-press. Then blends the two. It’s a pretty exotic wine.
Tom

It’s a great place to stay! I was there a few weeks ago, making this video: Amber Revolution - the world's first book to tell the full, forgotten story of orange wine - pre-order on Kickstarter now! on Vimeo (Ugh, WB seems to do something weird to the ink, try cutting and pasting the text rather than clicking it)

Will do my best to check out Idlewild, Ryme, Cowancllrs and Forlorn hope.

Have you come across Channing Daughter’s?

I’ve had it before, but years ago (perhaps 5-6?). Seem to remember it being fruitier than the Hapsberg ones (Italy/Slovenia/Croatia).

Yup, Simon…I’ve had the ChanningDaughter’s in the past, tho nout for 3-4 yrs now.
Thought it a rather austere rendition of a skin-contact white.
Tom

Simon: Channing’s Daughters are doing some interesting things with Italian varietals…One of the problems, however, is tasting them…when I visited there last Fall, the wines were served way too cold and almost impossible to discern anything going on…Preferred not to buy any of them without getting a sense of what they taste like…I don’t have Tom Hill’s perpetual sense of curiosity…I did buy some Rose, Sauv Blanc and Chard but did not come away with any of the Italian varietal wines which had been my primary focus for the visit…When my wife and I had dinner at Eatily in NYC, I tried Mike Bastianich’s Ribolla and was underwhelmed

Long- yes. Not so boring- yes.

I`m a fine of the Palmina Arneis as well. One of the better local expressions of the variety.