Advice for someone just starting out

Hi Everyone!

I just discovered these forums recently and I think they have such a wealth of information! I’m 33 years old and my wife and I have been drinking wine for about 5 years. Right now we have been limited to discovering new wines when we travel, but we’re only able to make it to wine country maybe 1-2 times a year, and in this respect we’re limited to California since we have young children and can’t take extended trips right now. We do visit Santa Ynez valley frequently and have also taken recent trips to Sonoma and Napa counties. My father also has a large collection of wine (~1k bottles) and he frequently shares wine with us so I’ve been exposed to a lot of great producers that way (Rhys, Peay, Williams-Selyem, WesMar).

My question is this: what advice would you give to someone just starting out in this great wine adventure? Should I just try to buy a variety of wine (varietals, regions, etc.) and make some purchases I end up regretting because I haven’t tasted them first, or should I just limit my purchases to what I have tasted already and slowly expand my breadth from there? It’s hard for me to sit back and read so many great wine reviews on various blogs and this site and not want to make an immediate purchase without tasting. Also, I’m very much interested in buying and cellaring wines and will slowly grow my current storage capacity (~150 bottles) to hopefully closer my father’s storage capacity. The budget will also need to grow from about $5k to $10k a year as well. My wife and I drink about 150 bottles a year. I love California pinot noir, cabernet sauvignon and chardonnay, but like to explore other varietals too (I’m too young to settle down with just a few producers, right?). French wine seems very interesting in my limited tastings but it seems so much harder to get into due to language barrier (it’s hard to remember the producer names) and limited access we have in California. I realize wine is very personal but certainly wouldn’t mind some advice even from someone who doesn’t have my same palette.

Any help someone could offer would be much appreciated, even if it’s just to tell me to have patience :slight_smile: I tried searching for related posts and came up empty, but if this topic has already been covered please feel free to just link those forums. Thanks again!

Cool place to be in. I would recommend you take things super slow on the gathering portion and speed up your exploring part. Taste as many wines as you can and form all of your opinions early on. See what works and more importantly, what doesn’t. If you find and producers that you like, exploit them. Purchase older bottles at retail and trade with friends. Find what it is you like about each variety of wine and which ones fit your lifestyle best. If you like to entertain you could add some bubblies into the mix but the one rule is keep it fun and keep moving forward. Keep journals and write notes, even if you are not Twain your notes will serve you well. Be prepared to fall flat on your face a bit but the good will and should always outshine the bad. Drink the best wines you can and notice I did not say most expensive. In my estimation great wines start at about $25.
Once you have some stuff under your belt don’t become a snob and be prepared to help anyone who asks you for sincere help in a few years when they come to you. Always keep an open mind and don’t criticize those who drink French wines, that is just too easy to do…

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I’m sure you’ll get a lot of responses. The first two tips that come to mind are 1) join or start a wine group. You can do different wine themes which will allow you to taste a lot more wine for less money than if you went out and bought all the wines. 2) Even if you are crazy about certain wines now like California pinot, do not go out and buy a ton as I guarantee your palate will change and the wines you like today may be the wines you dislike tomorrow.

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I would recommend tasting as much as you can. Depending on where you are in California, there are good to very good wine stores which offer interesting tastings.

I’ve found Eric Asimov’s columns in the NYT to be quite good for beginners as they tend to highlight representative wines from various regions and sub-regions, some of which are rather obscure, and have cost restrictions on their selections which keeps things reasonable.

Trying a range of wines from different styles and regions will help you understand what you like.

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What do you know already?
Do you prefer variety or focus on a few areas/varieties?
Does your visiting wineries make you appreciate those wines more?
Are you interested in the history or viticulture associated with the wine you drink or is how it tastes to you the primary factor for enjoyment?
Is your preference for bolder or more subtle? Young or aged?
Is the connection to vintage and the events of that year important?

Wine is often different things to different people. I had to grow my own grapes and make wine at home to fully appreciate wine. Most don’t need to go that far. You need to understand what aspects of wine interest you and which ones don’t and that will help you find your path.

Regarding changing tastes, that also depends on the person. After 25 years my wife’s still hasn’t changed. My own preferences did shift recently but I still enjoy things I purchased before the shift if just a little less often.

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Taste, taste, taste.

Retail shops, wine bars, bars at restaurants, tasting rooms, friends, etc.

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I actually just looked up a local wine shop (Hi Time in Costa Mesa, CA) that I already frequent a half dozen times and it looks like they have tastings 12-15 times a month! Now to convince my wife I’m doing serious “research” after work and not just going to HH!

Only buy wines you have tasted and know you like…nothing worse than taking a flyer on a $500 six pack because it got high scores only to realize you hate the wine.

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Fewer bottles of ‘good stuff’ that you like = better than more bottles bought in response to ratings frenzies.

Stay away from internet ‘liquidators.’ Those wines are more likely to fail you than impress you.

Find a good local shop and get help exploring. The relationship will pay off over time.

Welcome, by the way!

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This is actually what I’m at the most risk for, is just buying something based on a recommendation and not liking it later on (or possibly not having the patience to age it to it’s peak). I appreciate the reminder! After doing some tasting I’ve noticed that the ratings are such a mixed bag, and based on my own preference I don’t always agree with the higher ratings at times.

Enjoy the hunt!
Stick around these parts!
Get on Cellar Tracker and use it a lot.
Post questions and commentary here.
Agreed with Paul’s suggestion of joining a tasting group. He and I drink a ton of wine together, and we get exposed to insane stuff all the time.

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Such and easy and slippery slope for everyone Bryan. That’s why this board is so popular.

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One piece of advice: spit when you are tasting. As others have mentioned, it is important to taste quite a lot, but some people mistake tasting for drinking. Your palate will serve you much better if you get into the habit of always spitting when doing any type of tasting. Especially when you are visiting wineries.

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Bryan –

You are wise not to jump headlong into purchasing a bunch of young wines highly touted by people here on the board. What a disappointment to have to wait five-plus years, only to find out you really don’t like them.

My advice is to try older wines that have reached a level of maturity to see if the style aligns with your palate. That way you can either find those aged bottles for sale, or buy those wines (or others similar to their profile) on release with the expectation to lay them down in the cellar. The idea is to find that right octane mix – where you have enough bottles that are ready to drink now, while squirreling away enough wine that will subsequently age and come online in years to come.

You want to buy one or two bottles from good vintages from reliable producers. At first, I’d focus on bread-and-butter, tried-and-true regions that produce fine wine. I think you need to calibrate your palate to see where you fall on the intensity spectrum – more extracted, “modern” style vs. more delicate, “traditional” style. Are you a “forward fruit” guy or a “dirt and twigs” guy? That’s a very rough rubric, but you get the idea. Each style has its place and each has its fan base – you just need to judge for yourself where you fit in.

From a practical point of view, I think K&L’s online wine auction is a good place to try and pick off some decent wines that have requisite age on them at a decent price. Every day, dozens of good wines pass through the system and customer service is very good IMO. I also like that most lots tend to be two or three bottles, so you don’t have to bet the farm on one choice. I know many people will advise you never to buy at auction as you don’t know where the bottles come from or how they have been handled, but my experience has largely been positive in regards to bottle condition from these auctions.

If you are interested in a lot, check out Wine Searcher to see what the going rate at retail is and determine your price ceiling. Also, look at CellarTracker.com and view recent reviews of the wine. Once again, many board participants will tell you that this is useless, as you have no idea who the posters are, if they have the palate of a yak, etc. But you generally can tease out some general stylistic notes/trends about the wine. I also like to do a search on this site to see if trusted voices here have had the wine and posted notes, a sort of WB seal of approval as it were.
yet.

A lot of this is like handicapping a thoroughbred horse race, with many data points (many of them conflicting). Sometimes, a sure winner will fall flat on its face. And sometimes your hunch is right, and a longshot comes in.

Take your time. Try a few wines. Don’t buy any cases yet – especially of a wine that you’ve never tasted!

Here are some very personal and biased tips on wines to look out for from the Old World. This is by no means an exhaustive list and features a mix of price points. But many of these wines will be priced between $50 and $100, if not more in some examples:

Red Burgundy: Bourgognes from good producers in ripe vintages like 2005, 2009; village wines that are “open” from less heralded vintages like 2007 and 2014: Fourrier, Mugneret-Gibourg, d’Angerville, Bertheau, Chevillon, Bize
White Burgundy: St. Aubin is a sweet spot for typicity and value (Colin-Morey or Lamy); Chablis from Dauvissat
Red Bordeaux: Look for both Left Bank and Right Bank wines in unheralded vintages now ready to drink – 1999 and 2001. Sociando Mallet is a consistent QPR winner for classic claret profile.
Northern Rhone: Hard to find value married with true excitement IMO; but St. Joseph wines from Gonon, Faury and Chave Estate are good place to start …
Southern Rhone There’s a sea of indistinct Cotes du Rhone, but some bottlings from great producers like Beaucastel and Chateau des Tours (Rayas) are good QPR – baby Chateauneuf du Papes at a fraction of the price. Also look for Gigondas and Vacqueyras, as well as aged Tempier Bandol reds
Red Loire Not an expert, but I’m partial to leafy, crunchy Chinons from Breton and Baudry. You often find aged bottles at very attractive pricing.
White Loire: Francois Cotat for Sancerre; look out for aged Savennieres for a cerebral Chenin Blanc!
Barolo: You will have to pay for aged wines, but many drink well on the young side – Burlotto, Vajra. I am also a fan of buying lesser appellation wines (Langhe nebbiolo, Barbera, Dolcetto) from masters like Giacosa and Conterno
Brunello: Like the Loire, relatively easy to find good, aged wines from vintages like 1997. I like Ciacci, Col d’Orcia, Banfi … I find Riservas often not worth extra tariff.
Riesling: Buy kabinett, spatlese and auselese from great producers (Prum, Donnhoff) in good years (2001, 2005, 2009, 2015) to see if these wines are for you. Easy to find; won’t break the bank.
Champagne: Vintage grower champagne is the way to go for maximum craft and attractive pricing … Egly, Vilmart, Peters
Rose: I adore Tempier’s rose as the consummate summer sipper and am willing to pay the tarrif. Loire roses are crisp and refreshing (Crochet, Baudry)
Dessert: Raymond Lafon is a good value play in Sauternes, as is de Fargues at upper end (Y’quem at half the price?)

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So funny you should mention this! I started learning to split tastings with my wife or line up the what I think will be “better” wineries in the morning before getting too sauced to tell the difference between good and bad. It’s hard for me to pass up imbibing when I’m on a wine trip (unless I’m driving of course!) but it makes complete sense to spit with a wine group if you’re trying to truly discover new things.

Never allow yourself to taste a great Grand Cru Burgundy.

Or even a mediocre one.

But especially not a great one.

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The only urgent need for you right now is to stock up on as much 2015 German Riesling as possible.

It’s a great vintage, and in a few more months, the big names [JJ Prum, Donnhoff, Selbach-Oster, etc] will have disappeared from the shelves, and you might have to wait another 10 or 15 years for a similar vintage.

Everything else can wait, but you need to hit 2015 Germany while you still can.

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One question: Where are you located physically?

In California by any chance?

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Wow, I am blown away by all the information! Thank you for taking the time to type all that out :slight_smile:

Consider buying the “entry fee” to a higher end offline event, sourcing from a reputable auction or retailer. For the price of a single bottle, even if it’s a few hundred bucks, you will get to taste many wines at that level, likely with some age depending on the theme. You will learn not only from the wines, but from the people around you. I did this very early on, spending more than I’d ever spent before on a bottle of wine and attending a “CA Cult Cab vs. First Growth Bordeaux” dinner in San Francisco. A few of the people I met that night, going on 15 years ago now, are still close friends.

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