Bidding up and cellaring away special wines...unfair or not?

To follow the logic posted inside another thread, when someone, likely of means and perhaps for personal investment, bids up and cellars away special wines, does that unfairly deny others the opportunity to enjoy them also?

I don’t think so. We have a market, whoever pays the most for something can do what they want with it. It might be sad in some instances. In fact it probably is sad if it does deprive others of opportunity. But it is not unfair.

I agree. I think it’s sad when a wine becomes pure speculation, but not unfair.

It’s also sad when someone buys a wine just because it’s expencive, but doesn’t really care about tasting it. It’s simply about showing that they can. However, it is still fair from a market perspective.

“Unfairly”? I suppose most of us have a little blindspot that tells us all, as an individual, we should have access, at release pricing or better, to DRC, Coche, SE, Rousseau et al. Seems “fair” to me, because like… I will appreciate them unlike all them knowlessmen [insert classist or racist stereotype to suit].
But that’s a pretty obvious conceit. The best measure we have for “fair” distribution of rare goods is what people can afford. I’m all ears if someone can come up with a better one. So: No.

I agree that bidding up and cellaring away special wines are fair, rather than unfair. A respondent on a another thread seemed to think otherwise, or at least that such were hurting the overall wine-lover community.

Well … “fair” … what´s fair ???

Would it be fair if (in Comunism) everybody gets a bottle of Rousseau Chambertin, Coche CC and La Tâche at 10% above domaine-prices? (also those who don´t care a second about wine at all) ?

I think it´s more “unfair” to the producers - who invest their hard work and take all the risks to produce something special - to buy wine from them and sell it (often immediately) for prices 4-5 times higher … even if it´s legal …

I´m friendly with a lot of winemakers - and all are against “investments” with their wines … they want their wines to be stored properly … and then enjoyed at the table or in good company … not bought and sold many times at (crazy) prices …

I often confirmed to the winemakers (when getting a rare bottle) that it´s for me solely private - and never intended to be sold … and I´ve helt this promise strictly until today (apart from swaping a bottle now and then for a similar one with wine-friends) …

I think “historically” it´s a bit different in Bordeaux with the (often) huge productions of several 100.000s of bottles (Lafite, Mouton …) - these wines are not (and never were) really RARE … only expensive …

But it´s sad to see people making huge profits with a product that is meant to provide pleasure … and not money …
(apart from the natural income for the producers).
(Nothing against negociants who make their fair mark-up of some 20-30% per bottle …)

It´s the same with old string instruments: they should be played - and not be hanging on the wall of wealthy people to “show off” …

But I don´t have a solution for all these problems …

Just received an e-mail:

2012 JF COCHE DURY Corton Charlemagne 1 bottle at 2750€. <<
(without taxes)

How much was it off domaine?

No but I personally do not really believe in the word fair in this or similar context. I always use reasonable which tends to frame those discussions better.

Life isn’t fair.

Wine is part of life.

Can’t afford it? Drink something else.

Some consider it art. One doesn’t drink art.

I agree fully.

Performance art maybe. Which means in order to experience the artfulness it must perform, ie. be consumed.

So again, it’s all about screwing with the 99%.

I agree with Gerhard. I mean people can do what they want, but don’t come here and ask for my help doing it.

But, going back, there really are only two ways I know of to be sure of making money investing in wine. First, as others have said, is to get on mailing lists of hard to buy wine that sell the wines more cheaply than the market values the wine. I doubt a newbie can get on these lists that easily.

The second is to have a really good palate and buy wines from unknown producers who later become well known and regarded. I have done that once. And I have been drinking wines for a very long time. Is a newbie really going to be able to do this.

The other options that have historically been available like buying Bordeaux futures are riskier than before because the futures prices on the hot vintages are often very high. Will a newbie know which one to invest in and when? Doubtful.

Clearly, it depends on how many posts the person involved has made.

I don’t see it that way. The 99% most likely aren’t drinking the top 0.1% of wines anyway. You don’t have to not drink wine, you just have to not drink wine that costs more than your car payment. Just like I can afford to stay in New York for vacation, but not in a penthouse suite.

Sorry, art is something different.
Winemaking is a craft …

I was reminded of this for some reason…

This is WRONG. And should weigh on your conscience the rest of your life.

Jmho

I’ll drink my 2001 DRC Richebourg (bought in 2006 for under $200) to console myself.