Thoughts on Changing Tastes, or "Why Did I Stop Buying Williams Selyem?"

I don’t usually post tasting notes. In fact, I haven’t even started a new thread on Wine Talk in months. But my wife and I hosted a wine tasting party a few weeks ago, and I’ve been thinking about the reactions ever since. Specifically:

Two separate bottles of 2008 Williams Selyem Rochioli Riverblock blew everyone away. They stood head and shoulders above a several other nice wines at comparable price points. We tasted a bottle of the WS Rochioli Riverblock blind in the same flight with a 2013 Enderle & Moll Muschelkalk and a 2005 Alain Hudelot-Noellat Aux Murgers 1er Cru. Both were sound and quite good, although the E&M has shut down somewhat since the last time I had it. Everyone wrote down their impressions privately first. The WS was everyone’s favorite by a mile.

I was surprised, both because I’ve personally moved a long way toward preferring French Burgundy to California PN in most circumstances and because our two most experienced guests drink decent Burgundy and Bordeaux almost exclusively. But even after we tasted a subsequent flight of 2005 Smith Haute Lafitte, 2009 Rivers Marie Panek Cabernet, 2008 Radio-Coteau Timbervine Syrah, 2007 Gonon St. Joseph, and 2007 Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses, the WS was every single person’s wine of the night. I had another bottle of the WS to share at the end of the night, and it was equally delicious and confirmed everyone’s prior conclusions.

I’m posting this because I’m interested in the more abstract question this experience raised in my own mind. I think I got caught up in a tendentious narrative of California wine to some degree, and I’m also starting to suspect that my shift to Old World wines has been motivated at least in part by factors other than drinking enjoyment. I stopped purchasing WS entirely a year ago after winding down for the prior 2 even though there was never actually a moment when I decided that I didn’t like them (although to be fair to me, I did grow frustrated with their increasing prices and enormous portfolio). I’ve also noticed that people rarely post notes for WS wines anymore that aren’t from the Burt Williams era, and those are often accompanied by a specific sentiment that their later wines aren’t nearly as good and a more general sentiment that the Russian River Valley is inferior to cooler regions like the true Sonoma Coast, the Santa Cruz Mountains, and the Santa Rita Hills for making Pinot Noir. I think I subconsciously absorbed these sentiments and had largely stopped drinking the WS bottles in my cellar. Meanwhile, and even more recently, I shifted most of my wine dollars to Italy, France, and Germany.

But since our tasting, I’ve been reflecting on my wine buying more comprehensively than I have in several years. I’m still open to the possibility that there was something weird going on that night or that the WS was inadvertently highlighted in the specific context of the wines we opened. But even if that is the case, the experience has raised some interesting questions about my recent wine selections, the wines I’ve stopped drinking without ever really concluding that I like the wines I replaced them with more, and the way I’m apparently just as susceptible to fads and groupthink as anyone else.

Anyone had similar thoughts?

To an extent, yes. I eschewed basically all CA wine when I started getting into wine because in the $20-$40 range, you can often get much more for your money when buying old world vs. CA. I also tend to like old world-style wines much more than big, fruit-driven wines.

A few weeks ago, I decided to finally stop into Whitcraft to taste and I was pleasantly surprised. Very nice wines at decently affordable prices, though the pinots do go for more than I generally like to spend per bottle. My girlfriend and I wound up joining the wine club because we liked the wines and winemaking ethos so much, and I look forward to holding some pinots for a few years to see how they develop.

Of course, Chris Whitcraft, now living in the big cellar in the sky, was one of Burt Williams’ best friends.

A self-serving note: visit the Au Bon Climat tasting room and try an Ici Las Bas Pinot Noir…very good value. Don t bother with the other wines there.

Groupthink is a powerful thing. Just look at the WH.

I have been there once and done the ‘basic’ tasting (fine, but not Earth-shattering), but will seek this one out next time I drop in. Thanks for the recommendation!

Good thing is that you can pick up a lot of delicious older WS vintages at terrific pricing! Upside baby, nothing but upside!

Jay, great post. Hoping others weigh in.

Haven’t had much from the newer regime, but had the 97 Rochioli a few weeks ago and it was sure good. I personally haven’t bought a bottle of Cali wine in 20 years, but I’m glad at least someone I know is.

Enjoying wine is not like a marriage. You can cheat without hurting anyone.

Though I am wed to Burgundy now, I still have occasional flings with my old flames from California – Talley, Au Bon Climat, Rochioli.

I’m reminded why I fell in love with them and we spend a few hours together, laughing about old times, and move on without guilt or regret.

I guess my main point is that it doesn’t have to be an either-or deal. If the "intellectual’ side and cool restraint of Burgundy calls to you most nights, there’s nothing heretical about pop and pour on a juicy open-knit California pinot once in awhile.

Trust your palate and gut. If you really don’t like wines you think you should, what’s the point? You don’t have to choose one camp or the other. And you don’t have to sit in that camp just because you think it’s where all the cool kids are …

Last weekend went to dinner. I brought a 1999 Chevillon Cailles and a friend brought a 2009 Williams-Selyem Ferrington. I really was surprised how well the WS was showing and how well it held its own with the Chevillon. The Chevillon was beautiful, as was the W-S, and not that different as one might expect.

I have been buying WS since the 91’s and still have a good number from Burt’s era, mostly Allens and Rochioli’s which are still lovely. But sometimes I have overlooked the post- Burt era wines even though I have been buying them all along and enjoying them, or maybe taking them for granted is more like it. Even though I mostly buy Burgundy, the two CA Pinot producers I consistently buy are Rhys and W-S, though I too have become weary of the increasing number of W-S single vineyard releases. And i agree, it seems like post-Burt W-S doesn’t get much love from critics or on the boards, but then you pull one out as you described and it impresses with its balance. And compared to most CA Pinot Noir, that ain’t no small thing.

I also reccommend paying ABC a visit, but I like many of their wines.

Are you referring to the Oregon Ici Las Bas? I was at the tasting room a couple of months ago, and enjoyed more than just that one. I particularly liked the Clendenen Santa Maria Pinot, but I also get a kick out of their Nebbioli.

[quote][I think I got caught up in a tendentious narrative of California wine to some degree, and I’m also starting to suspect that my shift to Old World wines has been motivated at least in part by factors other than drinking [u]enjoyment[/u]./quote]
[scratch.gif]
You mean like drinking pain?

That’s kind of a personal thing. We don’t need to know if you’re a sub.

As far as the wine goes, you’re over thinking it.

Wine is to be enjoyed. If people found something they liked, that’s a good thing. If they had built images of themselves that involved liking one type of wine vs another and this didn’t fit their images, they’re fools.

Select wine based on its enjoyment factor to you. Not based on what someone else might think about your choice. As far as the more “experienced” drinkers in that group drinking mostly Bordeaux and Burgundy, I’ve shared plenty of wine with such folks. Some of them even know all the vineyards and soil structures, etc. Can’t ID a wine blind though. Because it’s about the story, rather than the liquid. And usually they end up exactly where your folks did - they end up preferring the wine they’re not supposed to like more than the one that they supposedly know.

Stories are easy to learn. For some reason, figuring out and admitting what they actually like is harder for some folks.
[cheers.gif]

[worship.gif]

I think that there is a preconceived idea that the evolution of a wine drinker involves the transitioning from the more overt, fruit driven wines to more subtle earth influenced ones. When first starting out and trying to understand what makes one wine “better” than another, and more importantly what justifies the greater expense, getting as much bang for the buck seems to be the most viable way. For most, the less is more revelation only comes later. And even then, more is more can at times be very enjoyable.

I think overall there is a tendency in wine to move to new shiny toys. In many cases, you go back and taste an old friend and really remember why you loved it so much. For me, for years my favorite Bordeaux was Leoville las Cases. I stopped buying it a while ago because prices got too high. I have had a chance to drink a few bottles of LLC this year, some my own and some that of friends, and have remembered why I like it so much.

I don’t buy that much California wine, but over the past several years, I decided to experiment around a lot less with what I do buy and largely just buy from my favorites - Ridge and Chaeau Montelena.

In addition to some good points made above, keep in mind that there are some wines that perform particularly well in group or blind tastings and others which don’t. I haven’t spent a ton of time thinking about it, as I no longer do many of the tasting style dinner/events, but I’ve always thought that less subtle, more immediately pleasurable wines without any extreme characteristics (that’s a very broad generalization) do well when going from one wine to another. Some of my very favorite producers almost never do well in scenarios like that.

I bought W-S from 1988 through 2007. For me, buying W-S was about Ed and Burt and visiting them in the small shed. Receiving the offering letters with a reasonable number of offerings. And drinking the tiny allocations of glorious Allen’s, Summa’s and Rochioli’s. It is very different now…Dyson has built a monument of a wine making facility; they trumpet their self-importance a bit too much (or at least have in the recent past); and the number of offerings now approaches something on the wrong side of manageable from a customer’s perspective. It just isn’t what it was. That’s all. Not better, not worse. Just very different. That’s partly why I stopped buying.

Yep, lots of aged W-S at the auction sites!

We had this exact same bottle last summer and found it very underwhelming. Too much candy.

Guilt is a terrible thing. You are feeling guilty for enjoying a wine that “true Burgundy lovers” would scoff at? This is a great example of the kind of experience that many of us will have if we are honest about what is in the glass. Had a similar experience at a friend’s house recently. An acquaintance was raising money for a Penn State charity, dance-a-thon, and brought several fabulous wines. We really enjoyed some of the classed growth Bordeaux and many other delightful treats that night with excellent food. Bottles came from a collector who had 2,000 btl cellar…no amateur. Almost apologetically he pulled the cork on a Caymus mid nineties Special Select (can’t remember exact vintage)

Guess what, it drank extremely well. Rounded profile, bit of cedar, delicious fruit that was slightly fading, clean fresh finish with no trace of heaviness. Would have guessed 2nd growth is a really good ripe year. Serve this blind to anyone who has a decent palate and they would have not dissed the wine for being a caricature.

Enjoy the wines, forget the cool kids telling you what you should love.