Siduri Wines and Wine Screw Tops

Just have to say that I have really liked the 2 Siduri wines that I have bought/tried (thanks to BD purchase (think 2016 but not sure) of the Uncle Sid pack of 2013 Pinot Noir wines-Ewald and Ligenfelder (which I drank) and Keefer (still in the wine fridge).

And I also liked the screw top caps. Anybody else big fans of screwtops? Prefer cork instead? Is there still a negative stigma (cheap wine) associated with screwtops?

I’m a big fan. I buy lots of Bonny Doon and Randall Grahm has been using screw caps forever. I don’t lay down for long term storage so that is not important to me. If I’m buying domestic, and I don’t know the winery, I may research first to check their bottling philosophy. Otherwise I love-em. I have lousy corkscrew feel.

Bruce,

Thanks for the very kind words. I’ve gone back and tasted some of our earlier twist off trials side by side versus cork and not only have they avoided TCA but they have aged far more consistently than cork (with its varying oxygen ingress rates). I am so glad you are finding them to your liking.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

Still surprises me to read threads like this, but alas, that’s where we still stand.

Great to see Adam doing more screw cap wines. Brian Loring has been all in since 04 or 05; I’ve been all in since 06; I’ll have to look when Randall did his famous ‘cork wake’ down Fifth Ave in NY but my guess his that he started back in 03-05 as well. And PlumpJack has been bottling their high end Reserve Cab under screw cap and cork side by side since the 97 vintage.

Great to hear that your wines have held up well, Adam - mine have as well, and I read a great side by side from the 06 Vintage, I believe, that Tablas Creek did noting that many of the wines they bottled under screw cap were preferred by those who tried both.

The tide will not change until mindsets change - period.

Not only can wines be stored under screw cap for ‘short term consumption’, but they can be stored on a long term basis as well. The ‘conventional wisdoms’ that were ingrained into so many folks by wineries that did not want to use screw caps or that heard anecdotal horror stories have not come to fruition . . .

Some of us will keep fighting the fight, I guess . . .

Cheers

Bruce, Adam, Larry,

I’d have no hesitation buying any wine under screwcap; I know the possible problems with corks and haven’t yet seen any compelling reason to avoid screwcaps, and it’s no longer the case that there haven’t been aging trials with them going back enough years to satisfy my expectations and requirements.

I know a nude beach with the motto “Screw Tops”

For long-term storage, I’m guessing it’s better to store screw-top bottles upright? Assuming that’s true, my only gripe is that it much more efficient in terms of space to store bottles stacked on their sides than it is to store them upright. However, I’d say not worrying about TCA and other faults offsets the inconvenience of storing upright.

It’s not necessarily better to store screw top wines standing upright - the point is that you have that option since you don’t need to worry about keeping the closure moist like you do with natural corks. Store away on their side - the liner will not break down nor will it impart anything into the wine.

Cheers.

I attended a tasting in Melbourne in early last year that had a bunch of Oregon pinots along with a bunch of local pinots from around Melbourne. It was pleasing to see some of the Oregon wines under screwcap (including a Siduri if I remember correctly). I do expect it from our local winemakers though and I am usually a bit hesitant to buy anything that is not under screwcap now.

Paul,

Always interesting to get perspectives from those around the world who are more ‘open minded’ than most US consumers appear to be.

I continue to explain to folks here that one of the main reasons that that closure took off in Australia is that winemakers got out in front of it marketing wise and explained to consumers that they were trying to ensure that what they spent years babying to completion would be more ‘sound’ in the bottle and wouldn’t be ruined by something as insidious as TCA had been down there. It had nothing to do with cost.

Here, on the other hand, many winemakers and wineries continue to reinforce the ‘conventional wisdom’ that only certain wines are ‘okay’ to put under screw caps, but that ‘serious’ wines, or in some cases any wines meant to age for greater than a year or two, should never be put under screw cap. The more often consumers hear it, especially from our industry and the cork companies (and Portugal), that literally pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for advertorials , the more they just take it to be fact, when it certainly is not.

Cheers.

So right, Larry, I hear that canard all the time. If anything, it’s the other way around, because of erratic oxygen transmission with cork.

I would add “and European” consumers. It doesn’t seem that screwcaps have made many inroads in Europe, and I can’t think the reason is simply the US market.

It seems like the Southern Hemisphere is the leader.

John,

Maybe Austria and Germany are exceptions, but Italy is still very conservative in this respect. I have a few producers who are doing screw caps for us, but only one I know of who is doing it for her domestic market. Maybe two.

I went screwcap in 05, went back to cork in 10. Wish my 7’s and 8’s were under cork. Frankly, I think the wines develop better under cork.

I think I remember reading that screwcaps were available with varying oxygen transmission rates, and winemakers could select the rate they thought would be best for their particular wines.

Am I correct, and if so, would the successful use of screwcaps depend upon that winery’s selection?

Peter,

The whole concept here is that winemakers have been trained to be freaked out by how little oxygen is transmitted in and out of screwcaps versus corks, and the feeling that the wines may become reduced because of this. This was one of the biggest negatives coming out of winemakers Down Under when they started moving towards screw caps, and therefore they started adding copper and doing nitrogen drops on every bottle in order to minimize this risk or cover for it.

We now know that wines do breath under screw cap, but at different rates than under cork. With the traditional tin-based liner, the trans ox rates are similar to the ‘best’ cork rates according to the landmark AWRI study, but with a consistency that corks do not have. This rate is quite small, though, and could definitely cause a wine to age very very slowly depending upon a number of other factors - free SO2 levels, dissolved oxygen levels, VA level, etc etc.

The saranex liner, made of food grade polymers, was established to offer an alternative - a liner that allowed for a higher level of trans ox than the tin liner. It has been quite successful IMHO, and all of my reds starting with 2006 have been bottled under this (as has Brian Loring’s wines IIRC).

Whether it was winemakers who strived for more choices or start ups that ‘explained to winemakers’ that more choices were better, additional liners have been made available that allow in varying degrees of oxygen in between those allowed in by he tin and saranex liners. Theoretically, you can ‘dial in’ this trans ox rate - similar to DIAM offering different ‘ageability’ versions.

This development will not win over any more winemakers that are hesitant to move their production in this direction, and it’s truly too early to tell whether it will ‘help’ consumers by allowing wines to age differently. For me, if it ain’t broken, there’s no need to fix it . . .

Hope that helps.

Cheers!

Actually, I have preferred your screwcap wines

Larry, thanks for the info. Do you know if saranex is now pretty much the industry standard, or are there some wineries who still use tin?

Many still use tin, and some only use tin.

I use tin on my rose and whites, not wanting a lot of oxygen in versus my reds, where I’ve used saranex from the get go.

Cheers.

Is there a comprehensive write up of Plumpjack’s Cork vs Screwtop results floating around somewhere online? I’d be curious to see how those are coming along!