How to act, when spotting a fake ?

I like to browse through the retailers lists of aged bottles for sale online. -Also checking various online auctions.
Some weeks ago, I looked at a Dutch sellers list, providing sharp photos, and close-ups of the bottles.
Several Bordeaux’ ($100+) from the '50s and '60s were clearly fakes!
Fuzzy wrinkled labels was one tell, but the worst mistakes were the not matching chateau names on the capsules…
I was stunned! And puzzled. Why provide these revealing close-ups, if He was a scammer ?
-I friendly mailed Him regarding these issues, and received answer short after, thanking Me.
He : “-recently bought numerous bottles from a new (known only by Him) source. And just sent the bottles to the photographer to get pics for the web. No thorough checking was ever done!”
I found six obviously fakes(wrong capsule names), and He found 10 more, all immediately removed from the list.
He seemed truly sorry and sad, and promised to punish the original seller(“producer”), as good as He could.

-Do You react when You see a clearly fake bottle for sale, online or elsewhere ?

Regards, Søren.

Yes…I do. Some time ago, there was a photo of a bottle of Didier Dageneau Asteroide on a popular online auction site that had the bottle listed as a vintage that did not match the photo of the wine posted. I called or emailed them and asked them about it. About 24 hours later the lot was withdrawn. It’s not an easy wine to obtain…but such an obvious goof seemed like an over site concern. I think there’s also little incentive to do something about it when they have a clause that says that they are not liable for counterfeit bottles.

Wife had a cashier at JC Penney yesterday named Tammy. Didn’t know they made dresses that big. Tammy had leggings on to cover his hairy legs and a 5 o-clock shadow. She said she tried to act normal.

Thank You Brian.
I’m from Denmark, so it took me a few seconds to get it.
I needed a good laugh, and I’m still smiling.

Yeah, I do tend to contact the seller/auction house as well when I come across something that’s obviously fake. Just the other day I was trawling a popular weekly auction site and spotted three separate bottles of Vega Sicilia from the '50s and '60s with the same printing error on the label (a vertical line thought one side of the V of the name of the winery not present on any other bottles I’ve seen from this period). I emailed them directly to raise my concerns but, although I got an email saying they were looking into the situation, the bottles were not removed and ended up selling…

I used to live in Las Vegas.

The best way to handle an encounter with something fake is to offer up a compliment and ask who the surgeon was.

In the wine world, what you did was perfect.

I’ve never encountered one, so can’t really say. I think your handling of it assumed innocence on the seller’s part and their reaction seems to support this. Many would start from the suspicion that either the seller was a crook, or had bought it from a crook.

Auction houses aren’t always the honest brokers we would wish them to be, and tales of wines being withdrawn from sale, only to be returned to the vendor who then re-submits them elsewhere.

So options include:

1. Contact the vendor (where possible)
2. Contact the auction house
3. Contact the producer. This is the one that might find someone angry enough to demand the destruction of the bottles
4. Contact the police / trading standards / fraud squad. Too many stories here of utter apathy though.

Are you projecting here?

Old Petrus’ are often counterfeited.
This 1924, online auction, Belgian seller, 4 days to end. 39 bids, now at €407 :


The capsule seen here is an older standard capsule, used both by smaller French producers, various negociants and foreign bottlers… Very common.
Chateau bottlings are rarely fitted with this generic seal!
Here a card from Ch. Petrus, showing their designs used.

Easy to see what was done here. An old looking bottle is refitted with an expensive label, and voila!

This bottle will be sold in four days, along with other suspiciously pristine labeled, wrinkled capsuled, 1928’er Bordeaux’.
Should I contact the seller (It’s possible to ask written questions) ?
-And if they are retracted, the bottles will probably just go for sale elsewhere, as noted by Ian…

It’s not nice to realize that fraud like this can go on and on, seemingly forever, without any consequences for the fraudsters, even when caught red-handed, selling counterfeits in public.

Well, at least it keeps the senses sharpened.

-Søren.

I have emailed or called the retailer or auction house to let them know a particular bottle is probably fake and tell them why. So far every one has removed the wine (Port) from being offered for sale. No idea what happens to the bottles after.

I have also notified producers as well. Some of the bigger producers will try to involved the authorities or their lawyers to intervene or look into the matter. So if you come across a fake it’s worth it to also notify the producer who’s product is being faked.

Hi Andy.
Good to hear You use Your expertise on old Port.
Maybe I’m overreacting, but it hurts Me when I see fraudsters frolicking especially in the wines I admire, collect and enjoy. I get angry… Grrrr. -And then I feel powerless, when I consider how many more unnoticed, dubious bottles being sold/hitting market, every day.

In this 1924 Petrus incident, I don’t think the producer will be interested in a single bad composed fake bottle, sold by a private “collector”. This level is to low and wide to investigate.
If instead multiple bottles/cases counterfeits were offered by a well known auction-house, or a large retailer, I could see the producers acting more aggressively, and They should do so IMO!

-Søren

I too get angry when I see fakes. However, it can be worth it to notify a producer, even for one bottle. Sometimes the producer knows more about or has seen more of the same fakes we only see one of. Alerting them to who’s selling it and where sometimes can help them with a case they’re already dealing with. So I’d recommend contacting them regardless, just so they are aware and can use or not use the info as they see fit.