Two Rioja questions: how rare are single estates and how rare is French oak?

Hi,

Geek that I am, I frequently subject my better half to blind tasting.
I opened up a bottle of 2001 Rioja Alta Gran Reserva yesterday.
The wife sniffed, tasted and said, “If it’s a Bordeaux, it’s a Right Bank Bordeaux, but I don’t think it is, I think it’s a Rioja”. And she was right. How did she get it so quicky, I asked? She replied “… the American oak”.

I am aware that the default oak in Rioja is American. But I was wondering: how common is it for producers there to use French oak? Is this a selling point? Do such wines tend to be overoaked? Do they seem to have any less Rioja character than the ones aged in American oak?

Also, I don’t think I’ve ever had a single estate Rioja, although I’m sure they exist. How rare are these? Do they, as a rule, tend to be better? Is there a trend toward more of them?

Best regards,
Alex R.

I am hardly an authority, but I would note that Lopez de Heredia Tondonia, Bosconia, and Gravonia are I believe each described as single vineyards; their website says they use American oak.

What’s the difference between American oak and French oak? How do I taste the differences? I had this wine and thought it was a BDX as well.

Coconut and dill are the biggest indicators for me in recognizing American oak.

Wikipedia has a detailed explanation. They are different species. Not only do they have different flavor characteristics (more lactones in American oak, hence the coconut), but they have a different physiological structure and have to be cut differently (European staves are made from split wood that is bent over heat; American staves can be sawn).

Berserkers’ own Mel Knox, a barrel importer, discusses this in the FAQ section of his company’s website (#4).

International styled wines tend to have more French oak. The more traditional ones older American oak.

Muga uses mostly French oak, but they’re certainly in the minority, at least among the big producers in Haro

Muga uses up to 50% French.

My understanding after visiting the winery last week was that they use closer to 80% French Oak. That said, my Spanish isn’t exactly great, so I might’ve misunderstood. Nor did I or they specify as to which wines we were talking about.

I was reading this on Vinous today (free article), has some good information on american vs. french oak in Rioja:

That is a fantastic article!

Vina Tondonia as per LdH website is 100 hetares.(247 acres) i do not know if it can be truly considered a single vineyard wine given its size.

french oak is a different species of oak than american…

French oak has a tighter grain - American oak is rustic brash over the top… best used for fruit bombs with alc over 15%


and yess once yo know the sig of the taste you will never mistake it unless the American oak is old used oak or neutral oak

American Oak: Quercus Alba is the type of white oak most grown in the United States. It is grown mainly in the eastern states as well as California. The forests in Minnesota and Wisconsin are considered particularly good sources of oak for the wine industry.

French Oak: Quercus Petraea and Quercus Robur are the two types of white oak grown in France. Of the two Quercus Petraea is considered the finer. The most important oak forests in France are Allier, Nevers and Tronçais (all in central France), Vosges in the northeast, and Limousin, which is more westerly near the Cognac region. Of the five, Limousin is the only forest to grow Quercus Robur.

Click on me

Alex, Rioja is in flux. Many years ago there was a feudal system in place where a big landowner had many peasants working on his lands. That changed over time and many of the peasants came to own their own land. But they didn’t all have cellars or the ability to sell their wines out of the region. So the model that was developed in the late 1800s was that a large landowner would buy grapes from many small holders and those would be blended into a wine that would rest in casks for many years until sold.

The grapes would be blends from various regions. Rioja is a pretty big place with diverse climates. So Muga for example, gets their Garnacha from Baja, which is warmer than say, Rioja Alavesa. It’s their best Garnacha and they blend it with their best Tempranillo.

Spain is on the whole drier than France, so they don’t have the same forests. But they have had lots of disputes with France over the years. So an oak supply from the new world was more certain and actually it was probably cheaper, since there was so much more of it than in France. As to the difference, remember that until our own lifetimes, people did NOT use oak for flavoring. That’s a very new thing. Earlier, people used the oak for its mechanical properties.

So the model was to put grapes from several vineyards into various oak casks and label the wine by the time it had spent in cask.

There was no rule on the type of wood, nor the age or the size of the container. So you can put your wine into old or now barrels of whatever size you want. You don’t have to use a Bordeaux or Burgundy size or shape.

The aging categories really don’t make a lot of sense and these days there’s a movement in Rioja to do away with that “traditional” model, which is only traditional since it was in place when the people on this board started drinking wine.

There are a number of producers who want to make vineyard-designated wine and who want to do varietal wines. Today, you can buy Mazuelo, Garnacha, and Graciano from Rioja, and I’ve had them done in various French, American, and Hungarian, oaks, as well as chestnut. Remember too that the various forests have their own terroir, just like grape vines do.

I think there will be increasing use of French oak and there will be ever more single-vineyard wines. That’s what people seem to like these days and there are many wine makers in Rioja who are moving in that direction and who are eschewing the designations of crianza, reserva, and gran reserva.

But a word on the ability of people to distinguish “American” and “French” oak - it’s not that easy and the preparation of the wood makes a huge difference. If you ever get a chance, I would highly recommend doing a blind tasting of the same wine done in different oak.

Do such wines tend to be overoaked? Do they seem to have any less Rioja character than the ones aged in American oak?

“Overoaked” is up to you the taster. As is “Rioja character”. I haven’t noticed that they’re any less Rioja based on what they’re aged in.

The American oak in Rioja does not result in fruit bombs; you might not like it but IMO it does not apply here.

John Morris’s link to Mel Knox’s website is gold on this subject. Mel’s offhanded humor is an added bonus.