What pricing will it take for Bordeaux to interest you?

What pricing structure makes Bordeaux attractive enough to get you to buy en primeur bordeaux

As a 30-something that’s passionate about wine and enjoys Bordeaux I’d be interested to hear what it would take to build interest in Bordeaux. I like Bordeaux, but even with the 2014 prices I’m not jumping up to buy it given the current market. I feel like we (the US market) got fleeced for the last decade by Bordeaux as the Chateaus attempted to command prices WAY beyond what they could sustain. So I’m wondering what prices will it take for you to part with your hard-earned money to put some Bordeaux in the cellar?

04 or 08 pricing.

I’m confused by the poll options. The 2014 Leoville Barton, a second growth, is $63 from K&L and possibly less from east coast retailers. That’s a very fine and long lived Bordeaux and a fair price. There are numerous other classified growths as well in the $50-60 range. (Calon Segur, Grand Puy Lacoste, Rauzan Segla) along with many Graves classified wines as well at a similar price like Domaine du Chevalier, Haut Bailly. So there are quality classified growths that hit some of your lowest criteria.

What I’m looking at is comparable quality in other regions. With this exchange rate and pricing, 2014 Bordeaux is a relative value to Napa right now. Compared to Chateauneuf, it’s a fair price as well with most reputable producers falling in the $40-80 range. Same case for Northern Rhone as well if we’re being selective. Even in Bandol, one of my favorite regions, Bordeaux pricing is not far off from current wines on the market like Pibarnon, Tempier designate Cuvees.

Now obviously the wines are in barrel and release is 3 years away so one would expect a discount. And it’s fair to expect future prices for other regions to shift downwards due to the value of the dollar, which changes the comparisons some. As I see it, if you enjoy drinking Bordeaux and these are not investments, then now is a good time to buy. No one needs to buy across the board in cases and cases of wine, but there are certainly good values to be had from good producers that deserve to be in cellars and drunk in the coming decades.

For the first time in years, Bordeaux is getting downright cheap. Okay, not really, but it is becoming (especially with the 2014 prices) very marketable and presents better pricing than many other wine places. Consider: when CdP is fetching $75 for Pegau, Charvin…Northern Rhones going for $100+…Burgundy 1er for $90+…Barolo $90+, Bordeaux is starting to look real good. But I would ignore the cru classe and look at what’s in the bottle.

Gotta admit, 2012 and 2014 prices are quite favorable IMHO.

For 2012, I wonder if when they’re released in bottle if they’ll be at the same price or lower due to the change in Euro/USD exchange rate. Some of these will be arriving within a few months. It will be interesting to see.

+1.

I mean, Fourrier CSJ is $300 if you can get it, is Margaux such a bad deal at the same price?

My curiosity was about seeing what prices it would take for people to buy Bordeaux. Not to argue the value. I won’t argue that the 2014 prices appear to be a real value right now. HOWEVER, EP has not paid off for many people for several vintages. I’m wondering what price-point it takes for people to talk about and buy Bordeaux like they do other wines. When I see people saying that they value some of these wines and talk about age…I’m in complete agreement. What I’m wondering is where does the tide shift with Bordeaux and people start trying to buy as much as they can possibly swing because the deals might never get that low again.

I think Bordeaux has suffered in the US market in the past few years. When I first got into wine (summer of 2005) there were bottles of 2002: Leoville-Barton($28), Leoville-Poyferre($32), and even Lafite-Rothschild (@ $149/bottle) sitting on the shelves at the wine stores for months on end. So I’m wondering where the market needs to go to get a level of interest in Bordeaux like there is in Barolo, Burgundy, N. Rhone and other areas where people snap up whatever they can get their hands on at the current asking price as soon as it’s released?
People made some great analogies with other regions I’m not doubting the quality or value…I want to know were does the shift in price have to get to…to get people as excited about Bordeaux as they are other places.

I am getting half bottles of a reliably nice wine for everyday drinking for $8.

This is more or less my position. In 2014 we have a good (not great) vintage with Bordeaux in line with the pricing of other great wines. Compare to Burgundy, Rhone, Piedmont, CA etc. and it’s no longer out of whack in historical terms (which it certainly was in 2005/09/10). Of course all regions are high and people may choose not to buy from some, but hoping for 2008 pricing is unrealistic given where wine prices have gone in general.

Since FGs are out of my range now I just chose 2nds at $75-100.

I think when you reminisce about the 2002 vintage (in 2005) realize that there had been a plethora of good vintages in recent memory, mostly priced more rationally such as 95, 96 Medocs, 98 right banks, 00, 01 Sauternes, 03 Medocs.

In 2005 all of those would have seemed more interesting. But I guess if you were seeing prices like you mention for 02s perhaps that made things equal.

+1 and even then, not so much.

I don’t think one should view it as buying “Bordeaux” as much as it is buying specific wines. I have not bought anything yet, but Climens for about $30 a half bottle and Coutet and Doisy Daine for about $20 a half bottle have me interested. Also, I am guessing du Tertre for $30 is bottle is a pretty good deal, as would be Langoa Barton for $42 and Canon at $54.

I am turning $60 this year and so am out of the market for the big Bordeaux on a futures basis. But, there are some value drinkers I am thinking about.

Not when the production of Margaux is 100 times that of Fourrier CSJ (just guessing, but it must be on that order).

I voted 1st growth below 150, please.

Difficult to say, it’s been so long since I even bothered looking.

Started buying with the '05 vintage, but have never bought via futures. Call it bad timing but I guess my experience to this point has been with the modern age of ridiculously priced Bordeaux. 2014 generally seems like they are approaching fair pricing based on the fact that I am planning on buying futures for the first time, including several First Growths. Maybe it just seems priced fairly based on my skewed experience, but two years ago, I never thought I would buy a single First Growth on futures.

Based on the poll results to this point, most believe First Growths should be in the $150-250 range. Hard to compare to other regions considering the complication of vintage variation and other factors, but top Grand Cru Burgundy pricing is well past the $150-250 range. Maybe based on scarcity, Burgundy is not the best comparison. What about Napa’s top Cabs, it seems that just about everyone these days has something in the $150-200 range, some much, much higher without a single mature wine in their cellar.

Obviously the abuse of Bordeaux pricing has brought about some bitterness (or just lack of buying), just wondering if we are headed that way in other regions (like Cali Cabs) and if the same expectation of price would be the case (of course, with an adjustment for futures pricing). Should Harlan, Byrant, Colgin sell in the $150-250 range in a decent vintage? One could only wish. Just a thought.

Even if pricing were where I’d like it to be, say Lynch Bages, Montrose and others of that ilk at $50-75, I’m afraid of spoofed wines.

If you take the word “pricing” out of the thread title, then my answer is “a lobotomy”.

I didn’t notice “en primeur” in the poll question until after I voted (you didn’t put “en primeur” in thread title or in your OP). As a result, I voted for all three most expensive options when I didn’t mean to.

I don’t do the en primeur thing. But you can consider my votes as being what I thought they were for: in-bottle release prices. Compared to Napa Cab., I honestly believe Bordeaux isn’t poorly priced. Now, I just need to get myself to act on that …