Burgundy - starting to get it.

Just got back from dinner with a friend ITB at our favorite steak house in Florida and drank a fantastic bottle - '93 Domaine Ponsot Clos de la Roche. My question is what is out there with similar characteristics, already aged or in need of laying down for a few years, to a bottle like this that is more reasonably priced. Obviously, there won’t be wines that cost 1/10th the price that have the same quality. Just curious about a few decent bottles that are worth trying.

Thanks!

DON’T DO IT. BURGUNDY WILL TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY.

Man, you started at the top : )

Hudelot-Noellat’s village wines are a perennial favourite of mine, and very affordable too!

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/ponsot+roche/1993

Wines that cost a tenth as much will be coming in around $125 to $150 per bottle.

I started buying Pavelot Dominode. Great QPR. I have yet to try one, I jumped on the burg insanity a bit late, but am accumulating. Burghound gives high rating for such a cheap, 40-50, wine.

Yes, I’m aware of that bottle’s price and WineSearcher.com but thanks anyway for pointing it out in case I didn’t know. Our rack consists of Arrowood, Caymus, Hourglass, and various Cabs around that price so it’s in my comfort zone.

I was hoping for some suggestions to speed my learning curve so thanks for the tips so far! [cheers.gif]

Didn’t someone go through the stages of burgundy denial some years ago? I shudder at the thought of even looking for it.





I think it ended with something like “Thank God for German Riesling”.

In the old days, you could get 375ml of a Donnhoff or Von Schubert eiswein in the $125 to $150 price range.

Often you have to jump on deals when you see them (you can’t taste and then buy), but there’s no reason not to be trying some bottles from a producer as you go. All the recent vintages have drunk very well for some time after release and many of the wines are delicious during that time.

I’m also accumulating Burgundy from a late start but each time I buy a producer I haven’t tasted, I try the wines. It has changed my decisions a lot. Some I don’t buy again and some I ramp up, and it’s not always in line with any critic’s ratings.

You know, we did “aged” Vosne @ $150 a few weeks ago:

[u]Need a Burg recommendation[/u]

My suggestions then were either the Forey Echezeaux [1998, 2000] or the basic Rene Engel Vosne village wine [1998, 2001, 2002].

This is tough, you have probably come too far too fast. Clos de la Roche is Northern Morey so you might look into some Morey St. Denis village wines to have around during the week, as well as village wines. Dujac makes a great Morey village, though a different style than Ponsot, but well worth checking out. Hubert Lignier is another who does well with Morey but the wines need age.

I think what you experienced is a fine (close to) MATURE Burgundy.
So it´s more important that you find something aged … than a Burg of (hopefully) good quality but far too young and probably in a closed stage.
Vintages I would recommend are some (but not the top) 2000s, 1997, 1992, 1991 and older.
1998s can be very variable, and many 1995 and 1996 are still not mature (as is 1999).
Usually the best crus of 1993 are also not on spot yet, but Ponsot seems to be an exception.

So better find a good Village or 1er cru for less money but in a good drinking window than an expensive Grand cru far too young.

No sense to suggest a lot of producers (others will or have) … since I have no idea what´s available for you.

An excellent producer from MSD that is still reasonably priced is Stephane Magnien.

I love H-N but stylistically they are nothing like Ponsot.

Dennis, I seriously doubt it was the “morey-ness” of the wine that got you - hell, I’ve been drinking burgundy for more years than I want to reveal and I’m not particularly confident of my ability to discern among villages/vineyards - and I doubt many people are, despite the plethora of tasting notes that say something like “typical Amoureuses” or something similar. Frankly, I think it’s much easier to ascertain winemaker, even for those winemakers that are lauded as making “transparent” wines.

I suspect you were caught up in being served a seriously good Burgundy made in an outstanding year from a great vineyard that had a good amount of age on it. A great experience, I’m sure. But you won’t get that again from young wines, which I’m sure you know. So if you are interested in exploring Burgundy to see what you like, listen to people here who suggest you try a few different producers’ wines, preferably from the same vintage and approximate price (I suggest 2010s as they are recent enough to be available, are terrific, and will show you current winemaking style) and start trying to ascertain which producers’ styles you like.

Pavelot is a good place to start; so too are the less expensive domaine bottlings from Drouhin, Jadot, and Faiveley (personally I’m not a Bouchard fan but many people who I respect are). Try villages or lower tier premier cru wines from Hudelot, Gouges, Grivot, Chevillon, Voillot, d’angerville, pousse d’or, Lignier-Michelot, for example - all of these producers make excellent villages wines that are under $60 or premier cru wines under $80 and represent an assortment of styles. Hell, look for Ponsot’s morey to see if it at all suggests that CdR you had.

Good luck.

Words of a sage. Thanks.

Try to find some retail tastings in your area. Much better than slogging through bottles (though don’t be afraid to take Maureen’s advice, and others).

The good news is that if you decide your tastes are going in this new direction, you can sell off all that California stuff, and replenish your cellar differently. Maybe you’ll continue to have very broad tastes, but if you’re like many of us, you’ll get to a point where you don’t enjoy opening those wines.

At the risk of sounding like a “broken record”, it is essential to figure out your goal and what you want from the next steps.

Clearly, young wines will cost less but won’t be like a wine with 20 years+ of bottle age.

You really need to figure out what you want to accomplish first. Otherwise, it’s helter skelter and Burgundy will seem even more unknowable.

IMO, if you’re looking to understand why people get excited about Burgundy, try to get to taste some older (20+ years old, at least) wines. Then see what they do for you and go from there: either buy more older wines or start buying younger ones and watch your hair turn grayer and grayer until they are “ready”.

He’s asking for wines in the $125 to $150 price range.

Much of the advice on this thread sounds wonderful, at least in the abstract, right up until you head over to Wine-Searcher and get a heart attack from the sticker shock.

Here’s a funny story bout your favorite steak house in Florida. I was eyeing that bottle for many years. Finally a few years go I pulled the trigger. Fsntastic. Well the somm announced that I bought the second to last bottle and someone in the house saw what he was pouring and purchased the last. Fast forward to last summer, the somm comes up and announces they found another case. Oh what a life !

2010s:

H-N chambolle - NY Wine Warehouse @ $52, Dig in SF @ 65
Grivot vosne romanee - HDH @ 65; Mission Fine Wines @ 70
Gouges NSG - Ultimate Wine Shop in NJ @ 38; Vinopolis @ 44

  • Gouges NSG Clos des Porrets 1er cru @ schneiders at 64; also Chaignots 1er cru at Vinopolis @ 69
    Fourrier GC aux Exchange - Crush @ 90; Gevrey VV
    Chevillon NSG - JJ Buckley @ 45; Chaignots 1er cru @European Wine Resource and Amazon @ 74
    Voillot Volnay and Pommard @ Rare Wine Co @ 50; Champans 1er cru at Chicago Wine Co @ 77 and Garnet for 80
    d’Angerville volnay at Crush @ 64; volnay 1er cru at online wines @ 64; Fremiets 1er cru at Down to Earth wines at 89

Nathan, he didn’t say he wanted to spend 125-150 - you extrapolated that from his short-hand way of asking for less expensive stuff - i.e., at a tenth the cost.