Wine storage in Minneapolis

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
User avatar
Barry Paul Price
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: December 22nd 2015, 9:00pm
Location: Los Angeles

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #51  Postby Barry Paul Price » July 16th 2017, 12:47pm

Did we ever ascertain whether you had a way to monitor the temp in the trailer? I find ambient weather temp a poor indicator. Many days the air temp is 68 or 70 and yet the tenp inside my car, parked on the street for a couple hours, rises to 80+ inside. And it's light grey, not black.

The sun can make a sauna out of anything it beats on intensely enough and for long enough.
Tropicalfruit notes o creamnotes

Advertisement

User avatar
alan weinberg
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: April 25th 2009, 1:23pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #52  Postby alan weinberg » July 16th 2017, 2:13pm

your palate is shot.*

Were there signs of heat damage--wine on labels, pushed up corks and capsules, etc.?

Did you place the wine yourself in a locker for which you had the key? In other words, proof that your wine was at the facility.

Anyone else who stores there have an issue?

Do they have a verifiable time log?

*I am kidding.
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #53  Postby Steve R » July 16th 2017, 4:36pm

Barry Paul Price wrote:Did we ever ascertain whether you had a way to monitor the temp in the trailer? I find ambient weather temp a poor indicator. Many days the air temp is 68 or 70 and yet the tenp inside my car, parked on the street for a couple hours, rises to 80+ inside. And it's light grey, not black.

The sun can make a sauna out of anything it beats on intensely enough and for long enough.


I drove from mid evening all night until around 9:30 am, so very little direct sunlight hitting the trailer. I monitored the ambient temp using the external temperature sensor in my car. I ocassionally verified that it was correct within a degree or two when passing by illuminated time/temp signs encountered as I passed through towns on the journey. The high temp was 80 degrees for a couple of hours well after sundown. The temp during that period inside the trailer would have been lower given that I had placed 40 lbs of dry ice in open containers inside the trailer.
Steve Ruth
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #54  Postby Steve R » July 16th 2017, 5:02pm

alan weinberg wrote:your palate is shot.*

Were there signs of heat damage--wine on labels, pushed up corks and capsules, etc.?

Did you place the wine yourself in a locker for which you had the key? In other words, proof that your wine was at the facility.

Anyone else who stores there have an issue?

Do they have a verifiable time log?

*I am kidding.



One bottle I opened had wine stains on the label. My recollection from the process of tranfering the wine to my home storage is that it was an exception in that regard. None of the bottles I opened had pushed up corks.

The wine storage company picked the wine up from my house. The next day I left the country and hadn't seen the wine again until I picked it up in early June. I learned the day before my move that my company's shipping policy limited me to one relatively small box for air shipment and that I filled with 50 bottles from my collection (all were fine and drank well in London). I called the most well known wine seller in my area, relying on their size and notoriety in quickly contracting with them for storage. I know of no one else who stores with them.

Is it typical for a storage facility to keep a log? I will ask about it - thanks.
Steve Ruth
Tom G l a s g o w
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2041
Joined: February 19th 2010, 3:01pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #55  Postby Tom G l a s g o w » July 16th 2017, 5:29pm

Never choose a vendor based on Notoriety.
User avatar
jhemming
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 246
Joined: January 12th 2012, 7:22pm
Location: Boston, MA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #56  Postby jhemming » July 16th 2017, 5:44pm

Could it have been ruined during its initial transportation into storage?
Jason Hemming
Boston, MA
User avatar
Jason T
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 751
Joined: June 8th 2014, 7:45am
Location: New Orleans

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #57  Postby Jason T » July 16th 2017, 8:57pm

Steve sorry you have to go through this. You indicated one of the labels showed signs of seepage. I'm wondering if the bottles were stored upside down, how would a label show signs of seepage? Unless it was from a neighboring bottle? Not doubting your statement at all. More a question about the storage method...
J@son Tr@ughber
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #58  Postby Steve R » July 16th 2017, 9:40pm

Jason T wrote:Steve sorry you have to go through this. You indicated one of the labels showed signs of seepage. I'm wondering if the bottles were stored upside down, how would a label show signs of seepage? Unless it was from a neighboring bottle? Not doubting your statement at all. More a question about the storage method...


Good point. I'll check the unopened bottles tomorrow, but if memory serves, this may be the only one or one of only a handful with a stained label. If so, it may be that the stain is unrelated to whatever may have affected the entire collection.
Steve Ruth
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #59  Postby Steve R » July 16th 2017, 10:17pm

Thanks to all for the thought that has gone into trying to solve the riddle of how my wine was damaged. The most likely cause seems to be exposure to high temperature. I picked up the wine in Minneapolis around 4 pm on June 12. According to weather records the high that day was 82 degrees, presumably close to mid day. The day was cloudy with some rain, so the trailer wasn't exposed to much direct sunlight. The highest ambient temp I read during the trip was 80 degrees somewhere in Nebraska late at night. There was 40lbs of dry ice in the trailer to moderate the temperature. Worst case, I believe the wine would have been at 75 to 80 degrees for 8 hours before temps fell lower in the early morning and the higher altitudes of Wyoming and Colorado. Would this have been enough to cook the wine?
Steve Ruth
Martin Steinley
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: July 11th 2009, 3:22pm
Location: Coronado, CA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #60  Postby Martin Steinley » July 16th 2017, 11:53pm

Definitely not.
ITB (mswm@martinsteinley.com)
Wes Barton
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2557
Joined: January 29th 2009, 4:54am

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #61  Postby Wes Barton » July 17th 2017, 12:04am

High temperature would not dry out the corks, but it would cause the contents of the bottles to expand, which would push the corks.

Arid conditions would dry the corks. That's something that has nothing to do with temperature. I'm not an expert, but a normal A/C system will dehumidify the air it cools. Also, the cooler the air, the less moisture it is capable of holding. So, an A/C unit designed to cool an office might be fine shorter-term wine storage, but be inadequate to keep corks from drying out for an extended time. So, if that's what they're using, without some means of re-humidifying, that could be enough. Like I said, corks will start drying out enough to damage wines in a standard fridge after a few months. The hypothetical condition here would be less arid than that, so it would take longer for the corks to dry out, but I'd think 12 years at 60 F cooled by an office-type A/C unit would dry out many of the corks.

Cooked wines can also be oxidative, but you've only described oxidative damage. I see no evidence of heat damage from what you've provided.

If the wines were stored neck-down for 12 years, there will be some sediment at the top of the neck and on the cork of some of them. Basically, smudgey gunk above the liquid level when you open a bottle. Merely flipping the bottles won't change that. You'd have to swish them around to rinse it all off, so that it could settle down. Otherwise, smudgey gunk.
ITB - Useless lackey
Scott Everson
 
Posts: 384
Joined: November 14th 2014, 1:25am
Location: People's Republic of Portland

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #62  Postby Scott Everson » July 17th 2017, 1:00am

Where was the dry ice placed in relation to the wine? Dry ice on the floor might leave a cool area a few feet high at the bottom, but the top of the trailer might still cook. When my wife and I moved up to Oregon, the movers unloaded our mattress but I didn't see until the next day that there was a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport. The burn spot wasn't black as much as it was a slow-roasted brown, like a well done marshmallow. I always assumed there was a hotspot in the trailer somewhere that slowly cooked the mattress. Maybe something similar happened with your wine, maybe. I doubt it though. And those wines should be able to last a day or tons of days with temps into the 80s on a truck and still be fine.
User avatar
Ian Sutton
 
Posts: 4086
Joined: March 6th 2014, 3:19pm
Location: Norwich, UK

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #63  Postby Ian Sutton » July 17th 2017, 3:17am

Another thought, if only to discount it.

Could the dry ice have frozen the wine? Ok no corks popping out, so if it did, it shouldn't have long-term implications.

p.s. I have visions of concerned traffic cops stopping you to alert you to smoke/vapour coming from the trailer [basic-smile.gif]
Normal for Norfolk
User avatar
Eric Egan
 
Posts: 289
Joined: July 17th 2016, 6:23am
Location: North-East England

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #64  Postby Eric Egan » July 17th 2017, 3:21am

Regardless of whatever might have happened I'm almost 100% convinced that unless the temperature in the truck was well above 90, the wine cannot have been damaged by your drive. Perhaps you could describe the oxidative notes that you picked up on? Some times the strange things that happen to with sediment and acidity after prolonged transport have been known to be confused with lightly oxidative flavours.

For those that say they have had samples shipped to them and not experienced travel shock, I'd say that I have never experienced a sample that suffered from travel shock either. I can't think of a producer/supplier that would even consider shipping wine that would be likely to suffer from it (due to the age/sediment etc.). It is not something that I've found in wines <8-10 years old.
Last edited by Eric Egan on July 18th 2017, 2:27am, edited 3 times in total.
Composer and Lecturer | UK
User avatar
Chris Blum
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 8086
Joined: October 10th 2009, 1:40pm
Location: Home of the Mayo Clinic

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #65  Postby Chris Blum » July 17th 2017, 6:32am

Where were they stored?
"Well, wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit" -- Lucille Bluth
"The Packers f'n suck" -- Todd French
User avatar
William Kelley
 
Posts: 396
Joined: June 4th 2014, 1:36am
Location: London, Calistoga & Beaune

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #66  Postby William Kelley » July 17th 2017, 6:58am

Just worth noting that Ridge's corks around the turn of the millennium are often very crumbly. Of course, you mentioned that you'd opened other wines too - but just thought it might be worth throwing that into the mix.
Decanter Magazine
User avatar
Alan Rath
 
Posts: 13272
Joined: April 24th 2009, 12:45am
Location: Fremont, Ca

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #67  Postby Alan Rath » July 17th 2017, 8:42am

Martin Steinley wrote:Definitely not.

Agree. Also consider that you had quite a thermal mass of wine starting out, with the additional insulation of cardboard boxes, and being packed tightly. And at the temps you describe, you would need months at least before being able to notice anything, if not much more. A few hours isn't going to do anything you could notice.
User avatar
Anton D
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 18186
Joined: October 17th 2013, 11:25am
Location: Chico, CA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #68  Postby Anton D » July 17th 2017, 8:47am

Steve R wrote:Would this have been enough to cook the wine?


No.
Anton Dotson
User avatar
John Morris
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #69  Postby John Morris » July 17th 2017, 8:54am

Scott Everson wrote:When my wife and I moved up to Oregon, the movers unloaded our mattress but I didn't see until the next day that there was a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport. The burn spot wasn't black as much as it was a slow-roasted brown, like a well done marshmallow. I always assumed there was a hotspot in the trailer somewhere that slowly cooked the mattress.


I think to brown/burn a mattress you'd have to have a temperature of several hundred degrees Fahrenheit, so I think this could not be from a hotspot in the truck. More likely some kind of dirt of stain, I'd guess.
Last edited by John Morris on July 17th 2017, 8:57am, edited 1 time in total.
"In the long story of civilization, the moments when improving your lot beats out annoying your neighbor are vanishingly rare." – Adam Gopnik, 2012

"Here is the land of mirth, as Germany is the land of metaphysics and France is the land of fornication. Here the buffoonery never stops." – H.L. Mencken, 1922
User avatar
John Morris
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #70  Postby John Morris » July 17th 2017, 8:56am

Eric Egan wrote:For those that say they have had samples shipped to them and not experienced travel shock, I'd say that I have never experienced a sample that suffered from travel shock either. I can't think of a producer/supplier that would even consider shipping wine that would be likely to suffer from it (due to the age/sediment etc.). It is not something that you often find in wines <8-10 years old.


That has been the subject of many prior threads -- and much controversy. Suffice it to say there are many who disagree with you. There are many people in the trade who believe that travel shock is a problem and won't pour samples of their wines for many weeks after arrival. It might be less of a problem in the UK than it is on this side of the Atlantic, of course.
"In the long story of civilization, the moments when improving your lot beats out annoying your neighbor are vanishingly rare." – Adam Gopnik, 2012

"Here is the land of mirth, as Germany is the land of metaphysics and France is the land of fornication. Here the buffoonery never stops." – H.L. Mencken, 1922
User avatar
Alan Rath
 
Posts: 13272
Joined: April 24th 2009, 12:45am
Location: Fremont, Ca

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #71  Postby Alan Rath » July 17th 2017, 9:02am

John Morris wrote:It might be less of a problem in the UK than it is on this side of the Atlantic, of course.

Everyone knows that travel shock is cumulative. So it makes perfect sense that shipping to the US should be far worse than shipping to the UK [stirthepothal.gif]
User avatar
Anton D
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 18186
Joined: October 17th 2013, 11:25am
Location: Chico, CA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #72  Postby Anton D » July 17th 2017, 9:36am

John Morris wrote:
Scott Everson wrote:When my wife and I moved up to Oregon, the movers unloaded our mattress but I didn't see until the next day that there was a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport. The burn spot wasn't black as much as it was a slow-roasted brown, like a well done marshmallow. I always assumed there was a hotspot in the trailer somewhere that slowly cooked the mattress.


I think to brown/burn a mattress you'd have to have a temperature of several hundred degrees Fahrenheit, so I think this could not be from a hotspot in the truck. More likely some kind of dirt of stain, I'd guess.


Those lens shaped skylights in the trucks can be a real problem.
Anton Dotson
User avatar
R_Gilbane
 
Posts: 738
Joined: November 6th 2014, 5:53pm
Location: Washington

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #73  Postby R_Gilbane » July 17th 2017, 9:43am

Scott Everson wrote:a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport.


Does the fact that I laughed out loud when I read this make me a bad person??
Bobby
User avatar
John Morris
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #74  Postby John Morris » July 17th 2017, 9:51am

Barry Paul Price wrote:Did we ever ascertain whether you had a way to monitor the temp in the trailer? I find ambient weather temp a poor indicator. Many days the air temp is 68 or 70 and yet the tenp inside my car, parked on the street for a couple hours, rises to 80+ inside. And it's light grey, not black.

The sun can make a sauna out of anything it beats on intensely enough and for long enough.


A car is like a greenhouse if it sits without AC on. Trunks and trailers stay cooler than an un-air conditioned car. I've been pleasantly surprised at how a few cases of wine coming out of a cellar stay relatively cool in a trunk even on warm days. A couple of cases provides enough thermal mass to delay the warming. A fortiori, a whole trailer with dry ice ....
Last edited by John Morris on July 17th 2017, 11:49am, edited 1 time in total.
"In the long story of civilization, the moments when improving your lot beats out annoying your neighbor are vanishingly rare." – Adam Gopnik, 2012

"Here is the land of mirth, as Germany is the land of metaphysics and France is the land of fornication. Here the buffoonery never stops." – H.L. Mencken, 1922
Fred Bower
 
Posts: 675
Joined: October 28th 2010, 12:00pm
Location: Durham North Carolina, USA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #75  Postby Fred Bower » July 17th 2017, 11:46am

If you want to eliminate the "your tastes have changed" from the list, find someone in your wine universe with the same vintage/bottling of one of the suspect wines and do a side-by-side blind tasting of the two bottles. If you don't have anyone in that wine universe, go spring for a bottle...shop around for something inexpensive that will (probably) answer the question.

Cheers,
fred
User avatar
Eric Egan
 
Posts: 289
Joined: July 17th 2016, 6:23am
Location: North-East England

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #76  Postby Eric Egan » July 17th 2017, 11:51am

John Morris wrote:
Eric Egan wrote:For those that say they have had samples shipped to them and not experienced travel shock, I'd say that I have never experienced a sample that suffered from travel shock either. I can't think of a producer/supplier that would even consider shipping wine that would be likely to suffer from it (due to the age/sediment etc.). It is not something that you often find in wines <8-10 years old.


That has been the subject of many prior threads -- and much controversy. Suffice it to say there are many who disagree with you. There are many people in the trade who believe that travel shock is a problem and won't pour samples of their wines for many weeks after arrival. It might be less of a problem in the UK than it is on this side of the Atlantic, of course.


Interesting, I'll have to look up the thread(s) on this. As I said, I've not experienced it with very young wines but am happy to be convinced that these can be affected as well if others have had that experience. May of course be that the difference in the distance/time travelled has a large impact here. I am still convinced that it's more likely to occur in middle aged/older bottles (as the ones in the thread here) but that doesn't mean it can't happen with young wines as well I suppose.
Composer and Lecturer | UK
Fred Bower
 
Posts: 675
Joined: October 28th 2010, 12:00pm
Location: Durham North Carolina, USA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #77  Postby Fred Bower » July 17th 2017, 11:57am

To amplify what others have said already...
The duration and conditions under which you transported the wine seem highly unlikely to have been able to uniformly damage the entire trailer's contents. What has been described sounds more like a longer-term impact on the entire parcel unless you happened to only inspect/sample from a specific box within the trailer. What you are describing as oxidation certainly could be what others would call cooked. It could also really be oxidation if you have greater than age-appropriate ullage. While the wine has to go somewhere, it can do so without leaving obvious signs of seepage. In my experience, cork seal failure is not a binary event and leakers can heal themselves. I suspect this is also true of non-leaking seepers.

Cheers,
fred
User avatar
J Wei
 
Posts: 872
Joined: May 7th 2010, 5:06pm
Location: Los Angeles/OC

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #78  Postby J Wei » July 17th 2017, 2:06pm

Steve. . . Sorry to hear about your wines.

Can you provide the name of the storage that handled your wine? Perhaps someone on the board has used them before or we can help look into whether or not the storage condition is indeed what they advertise. I suspect, like most people here, that the damage was done long before you transported it.
- Juyuan
User avatar
c fu
(Online)
ModeratorModerator
Domaine De La Husky
 
Posts: 26169
Joined: January 27th 2009, 2:26pm
Location: DTLA/Pasadena

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #79  Postby c fu » July 17th 2017, 2:31pm

Steve, I can say with certainty that your wine wasn't damaged in your transport of the wine. A trailer full of dry ice would keep the temperature cool enough in that trailer. No need to worry about that or discuss it as even a possibility. Something happened in those 12 years of storage or from when the wine was brought to storage.
Ch@rlie F|_|

"Roulot is Roulot"©
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #80  Postby Steve R » July 17th 2017, 2:37pm

Fred Bower wrote:If you want to eliminate the "your tastes have changed" from the list, find someone in your wine universe with the same vintage/bottling of one of the suspect wines and do a side-by-side blind tasting of the two bottles. If you don't have anyone in that wine universe, go spring for a bottle...shop around for something inexpensive that will (probably) answer the question.

Good suggestion. I will try this. However, I opened the bottles with a friend who has similar bottles in his cellar. In addition, one of the bottles we tried from my collection was a Quilceda cab. We drank one from his cellar the night before. Though his was 3 or 4 years younger it should have made a reasonable comparison. His was very good, mine was not something you would want to drink.

Cheers,
fred
Steve Ruth
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #81  Postby Steve R » July 17th 2017, 2:44pm

J Wei wrote:Steve. . . Sorry to hear about your wines.

Can you provide the name of the storage that handled your wine? Perhaps someone on the board has used them before or we can help look into whether or not the storage condition is indeed what they advertise. I suspect, like most people here, that the damage was done long before you transported it.


I plan to speak with the wine merchant again tomorrow. I would like to hear what their position is before identifying the company. If I make no progress I'll put the name in a reply and be very grateful for any info or help offered.
Steve Ruth
User avatar
John Morris
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #82  Postby John Morris » July 17th 2017, 3:01pm

Did you pay them for the storage?
"In the long story of civilization, the moments when improving your lot beats out annoying your neighbor are vanishingly rare." – Adam Gopnik, 2012

"Here is the land of mirth, as Germany is the land of metaphysics and France is the land of fornication. Here the buffoonery never stops." – H.L. Mencken, 1922
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #83  Postby Steve R » July 17th 2017, 3:11pm

Yes
Steve Ruth
User avatar
c fu
(Online)
ModeratorModerator
Domaine De La Husky
 
Posts: 26169
Joined: January 27th 2009, 2:26pm
Location: DTLA/Pasadena

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #84  Postby c fu » July 17th 2017, 3:18pm

Steve R wrote:
J Wei wrote:Steve. . . Sorry to hear about your wines.

Can you provide the name of the storage that handled your wine? Perhaps someone on the board has used them before or we can help look into whether or not the storage condition is indeed what they advertise. I suspect, like most people here, that the damage was done long before you transported it.


I plan to speak with the wine merchant again tomorrow. I would like to hear what their position is before identifying the company. If I make no progress I'll put the name in a reply and be very grateful for any info or help offered.


Who is the wine merchant? :D
Ch@rlie F|_|

"Roulot is Roulot"©
PhillipDube
 
Posts: 4
Joined: March 20th 2016, 10:36pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #85  Postby PhillipDube » July 17th 2017, 4:05pm

Just curious how other wines are tasting? I have certainly experienced wines that seem thin and disjointed when tasting at altitude (Minnesota and London vs. Colorado). Not too different from drinking wine while flying. I hope it works out for you.
ITB, Anaba Wines
TomHill
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 7270
Joined: July 28th 2009, 9:21am
Location: LosAlamos, NM

Uhhhh....

Post #86  Postby TomHill » July 17th 2017, 4:13pm

Steve R wrote:
J Wei wrote:Steve. . . Sorry to hear about your wines.

Can you provide the name of the storage that handled your wine? Perhaps someone on the board has used them before or we can help look into whether or not the storage condition is indeed what they advertise. I suspect, like most people here, that the damage was done long before you transported it.


I plan to speak with the wine merchant again tomorrow. I would like to hear what their position is before identifying the company. If I make no progress I'll put the name in a reply and be very grateful for any info or help offered.


Uhhhhhh.....Steve...that's not the way we do things here on WB. We out them immediately in our first post in the hopes that the wrath
of the entire InterNet will rain down upon them and we'll get satisfaction. That's the WB way!!! [snort.gif]
Tom
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #87  Postby Steve R » July 17th 2017, 5:14pm

Seems reasonable to first listen to the other side of the story before putting a name out on the internet in a potentially pejorative way.
Steve Ruth
TomHill
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 7270
Joined: July 28th 2009, 9:21am
Location: LosAlamos, NM

My Thoughts...

Post #88  Postby TomHill » July 17th 2017, 5:19pm

My thoughts on your situation, Steve. No reason that AlanRath should be the only one to
post common sense here in this thread.

I think it's very/very unlikely that your wine was damaged in transit. Even if you didn't bother w/ the dry ice, it most likely be OK since
you were traveling mostly at night and had a large thermal mass.

Travel shock?? Perhaps. But I'm not a big believer in travel shock, especially from the short journey you describe. I've never
tasted a wine that just landed on my doorstep and I Pobega'd and thought there was any identifiable character that I would ascribe
the travel shock. Does travel shock exist?? Probably...OliverMcCrum believes it does and always lets his freshly imported
wines rest before trying them on customers. He's done the A/B comparison, has a great palate, and I believe him. But I just
don't have enough experience to identify anything I'd call travel shock. Certainly, oxidation is not a feature of travel shock.

So my guess is that any damage to your wine occurred during that 12 yr storage period. Your descriptors of "undrinkable"
and "bad" don't help very much in identifying the flaw in the wine. I'm confident that you have enough experience w/ wine
to identify oxidation in a wine from overheating. One day at, say, 90F is not going to damage a wine. Even at 12 yrs down the
the road. But there are folks who believe wine is extremely fragile and would dispute, based on no evidence whatsoever, my assertion.
I guess I would have to know more about what kind of damage your wine has sustained. Send me all your MonteBellos and
I'll check 'em out for you, Steve. [snort.gif]

One other thought on the storage over lo those many yrs that nobody as mentioned yet. It was probably stored in a room
that was being accessed several times a day. The shock to you stash from the opening & closing the door, especially if it were
slammed, could send shock waves, probably on the order of 1.378E-10 on the Richter scale, thru your stash, that could destroy
your wine. Alan will definitely back me up on this point. [stirthepothal.gif]

That being said (the damage was due to poor storage over the 12 yrs and overheating). I would be shocked...shocked, I tell you,
if it "destroyed" your entire stash of wine. From the oft-told story of my orphan stash in my garage (18 yrs at totally uncontrolled
temps, upper 90F to below freezing), many stored upright or cork down, it was surprising the number of wines that turned out
to be just fine, or only slightly compromised. If you have any high-acid German wines or high-acid Alsatian wine (do they even
make those in Alsace any more), try one of those. They would have a higher survival rate if prolonged heat were the culprit.

Regarding wine stored not lying on their side: I've lots of experience along those lines. I've had many a case in which they
were stored cork upright. It's very rare that I find such storage conditions, even in the very low humidity here in NM, will
compromise the cork. Sometimes (rarely) the cork will not be tight in the btl and tend to punch into the wine, but not very often.
Occasionally the outer end of the cork has dried out and the cork breaks in half, and I fish out the remaining piece and see
little, if any, signs that the wine was oxidized.
OTOH, it's the btls that have been stored cork-down that I have the most problem with. Oftentimes, the cork is totally
saturated, soft & mushy, and it disintegrates when you use a corkscrew. Then I go to my backup Ah-So.
Bottom line: Sorry about your situation, Steve. Here's hoping that at least some of them survive.
Tom
User avatar
John Morris
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #89  Postby John Morris » July 17th 2017, 8:23pm

PhillipDube wrote:Just curious how other wines are tasting? I have certainly experienced wines that seem thin and disjointed when tasting at altitude (Minnesota and London vs. Colorado). Not too different from drinking wine while flying. I hope it works out for you.


An interesting point!
"In the long story of civilization, the moments when improving your lot beats out annoying your neighbor are vanishingly rare." – Adam Gopnik, 2012

"Here is the land of mirth, as Germany is the land of metaphysics and France is the land of fornication. Here the buffoonery never stops." – H.L. Mencken, 1922
User avatar
J Wei
 
Posts: 872
Joined: May 7th 2010, 5:06pm
Location: Los Angeles/OC

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #90  Postby J Wei » July 18th 2017, 5:48pm

Steve, any updates after talking to the wine merchant?
- Juyuan
b. c@stner
 
Posts: 688
Joined: June 8th 2009, 7:52pm
Location: Chicago Burbs...South Carolina Coast

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #91  Postby b. c@stner » July 18th 2017, 6:09pm

R_Gilbane wrote:
Scott Everson wrote:a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport.


Does the fact that I laughed out loud when I read this make me a bad person??


Not at all. My first thought was TMI.
b 0 b
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #92  Postby Steve R » July 18th 2017, 6:28pm

J Wei wrote:Steve, any updates after talking to the wine merchant?


Didn't return my calls today. I'll try again tomorrow. :|
Steve Ruth
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #93  Postby Steve R » July 19th 2017, 4:38pm

Steve R wrote:
J Wei wrote:Steve, any updates after talking to the wine merchant?


Didn't return my calls today. I'll try again tomorrow. :|


No tangible progress today. I 've not spoken to anyone with authority, however I have been referred to the company's corporate director of insurance, who won't be in until tomorrow. Seems like the right person to speak with so I'm hopeful that the company will act in good faith.
Steve Ruth
User avatar
Anton D
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 18186
Joined: October 17th 2013, 11:25am
Location: Chico, CA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #94  Postby Anton D » July 19th 2017, 4:42pm

b. c@stner wrote:
R_Gilbane wrote:
Scott Everson wrote:a huge burn spot on the mattress that could have only come from something on the truck during transport.


Does the fact that I laughed out loud when I read this make me a bad person??


Not at all. My first thought was TMI.


Maybe he smokes during sex.

One of my favorite old jokes.

If someone asks if you smoke after sex, you say...

Click to see spoiler:
I don't know, I never looked.
Anton Dotson
User avatar
Scott Brunson
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 6838
Joined: November 15th 2011, 3:55am
Location: in between coastal SC and south FL

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #95  Postby Scott Brunson » July 19th 2017, 5:19pm

^
an oldie but a goodie

I am a ridiculously optimistic person so I'll offer another possibility.
Maybe it's just a run of bad luck and the rest of the bottles are fine. [cheers.gif]
Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
On CT, I'm S1
User avatar
Chuck Miller
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: June 1st 2009, 7:58am
Location: Seattle, WA

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #96  Postby Chuck Miller » July 19th 2017, 7:22pm

Steve R wrote:
Steve R wrote:
J Wei wrote:Steve, any updates after talking to the wine merchant?


Didn't return my calls today. I'll try again tomorrow. :|


No tangible progress today. I 've not spoken to anyone with authority, however I have been referred to the company's corporate director of insurance, who won't be in until tomorrow. Seems like the right person to speak with so I'm hopeful that the company will act in good faith.


Oh, come on. No wine shop in the world has someone called the 'corporate director of insurance', except maybe a large national chain. You may be getting smoke blown up your ass. Sorry for the hassles with your wine.
Chuck Miller
Seattle Wine Storage
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #97  Postby Steve R » July 19th 2017, 7:30pm

Scott Brunson wrote:^
an oldie but a goodie

I am a ridiculously optimistic person so I'll offer another possibility.
Maybe it's just a run of bad luck and the rest of the bottles are fine. [cheers.gif]


Thanks for the positive thoughts. Just handed over a 1998 Vieux Telegraph CDP to the Sommelier at a local restaurant with an award winning cellar to get his opinion on the wine. My hope is that he thoroughly enjoys the bottle.
Steve Ruth
Steve R
 
Posts: 38
Joined: July 14th 2017, 9:09pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #98  Postby Steve R » July 19th 2017, 7:37pm

Honestly, when you call this company and listen to the recording which provides the extensions for the corporate employees this guy's title is director of insurance. This company isn't the corner liquor store
Steve Ruth
GregT
 
Posts: 5273
Joined: April 15th 2009, 3:12pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #99  Postby GregT » July 19th 2017, 8:45pm

More likely some kind of dirt of stain, I'd guess.


More likely some kind of other, nastier stain. But that's the kind of thing you need a corporate director of insurance for. Sometimes they call those guys risk managers. Like in what's the risk if we drink all this guy's wine and swap it out for some stuff we just brought in from China?

I would love to hear what they have to say. As I mentioned before, it will be extremely hard to prove damage, and even if you do, to prove it was caused by them. Doesn't discount what many of the people have said above, and which I agree with, which is that the wine was damaged somewhere other than your trip, but good luck proving that it was the storage guys.
G . T a t a r
User avatar
Arv R
 
Posts: 2688
Joined: January 11th 2015, 4:53pm

Wine ruined by transport?

Post #100  Postby Arv R » July 19th 2017, 9:52pm

I don't see how the wine storage biz model works if customers can come back much later and ask for damages, when its not obvious that the storage company did something wrong. Sure -- missing wines, flooded locker units, burnt down facilities -- those are all the kinds of events that I would expect paying for safekeeping to have some coverage for. This is murkier.

I guess we'll see what Steve reports back. Those little temperature / humidity gauges seems like it would have been useful here, since it tracks high/lows for both those aspects. I think they even have ones that can report over the internet, assuming devices can connect to wifi. Everything here sounds to me like something got a shade too dry, and some corks were impaired.

Maybe you can find a local restaurant who will partner with you on disposing of these. If they sell them to their clientele by the bottle, and don't experience patrons rejecting them, you both share some of the proceeds.
R_@_0

Return to Wine Talk

logo
Food Advertising by